Virgin experience nightmare. Product no longer available, No offer of refund. Please help.

Toadsmail

longjohnjohnson said:

You, in effect, purchased a gift voucher for a specific retailer who has essentially gone bust.  I suspect your rights are the same as anyone else in that position.

Their T&C's do state that if the voucher is redeemed (and it appears it was as the code was given to the supplier) then no refund is due.

There's also

1. Variations

   Please note that Operators and Suppliers reserve the right to alter any part of an Experience or Product. Experiences and Voucher Products may occasionally be withdrawn for reasons outside of our control, and we cannot be held liable for any costs incurred as a result of this. Should this occur, you will be advised and offered the opportunity to exchange your Voucher for one with the same face value. If alternatives are not available, no refunds can be offered but a Gift Card for the same value will be offered. Please see "Cancellations" below for further information.

I don't think it's particularly unfair for them to offer a replacement voucher for a different experience.  It's arguably more than you're entitled to in law.

I would argue that the voucher was only redeemed when the experience was taken. Reserving a date with the supplier is not redeeming the voucher.
I paid for 6 experiences for my sons birthday that are longer available, within 40 days of purchase the supplier ceased the ability to trade, I am being forced into accepting alternatives that are not fit for our purposes. We paid to drive banger cars around a track, not go on a balloon ride etc. In effect I feel Virgin are ripping me off.

Toadsmail

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I agree, I think you've ended up better off than you might have done, since you redeemed the voucher before the provider went bust.  I think the best you can hope for is a new voucher, which they appear to have offered.  There's a risk that if you don't accept it, you will end up with nothing.

It's why many people avoid these voucher schemes, and book directly with the provider itself.  If you'd booked directly, via credit card for example, then you could get a refund via your card.  Buying vouchers from a third party, using Paypal, is a recipe for trouble.  You've broken the link with the provider, and any link to your card.

I assumed that I could get my money back via Paypal as they can protect their consumers too

Toadsmail

steve_naive said:

LaHostessAvecLaMostess said:

steve_naive said:

longjohnjohnson said:

You, in effect, purchased a gift voucher for a specific retailer who has essentially gone bust.  I suspect your rights are the same as anyone else in that position.

Their T&C's do state that if the voucher is redeemed (and it appears it was as the code was given to the supplier) then no refund is due.

There's also

1. Variations

   Please note that Operators and Suppliers reserve the right to alter any part of an Experience or Product. Experiences and Voucher Products may occasionally be withdrawn for reasons outside of our control, and we cannot be held liable for any costs incurred as a result of this. Should this occur, you will be advised and offered the opportunity to exchange your Voucher for one with the same face value. If alternatives are not available, no refunds can be offered but a Gift Card for the same value will be offered. Please see "Cancellations" below for further information.

I don't think it's particularly unfair for them to offer a replacement voucher for a different experience.  It's arguably more than you're entitled to in law.

Without wishing to dispute the legality of the T&C's, does it not trouble you that Virgin can advertise something under their banner for which they essentially eschew all liability for should things go wrong?

People unwittingly buy into the brand thinking they are somehow covered by Virgin's reputation. Which is clearly not the case.

My family recently bought an experience for our elderly father that turned out to be as legitimate as a 6 pound note. Lost £100 with zero comeback. Virgin simply replied 'read our terms and conditions'. 

Great.

No, as I think most of us are fully aware of what gift cards entail, and perhaps more specifically what we're giving up by using them. Which is one of the reasons why I never give them as gifts and would only purchase them with some sort of financial incentive to do so (along with as much confidence as possible that the retailer is going to stay in business/not screw me around.)

This is really no different than buying a gift card at a Tesco checkout and the company the gift card is for going bump a month later.  I wouldn't expect Tesco to refund me, they fulfilled their part of the bargain by giving me the gift card in return for my cash.

I understand that in order to have any realistic chance of getting my money back I need as direct a link to the "retailer" as possible.  Gift cards put a massive barrier in the way of that.

Let's not pretend that most people are canny consumers. If they were, Virgin Experience Days would not exist. 

Last time I checked, Tesco provide gift cards from major outlets such as Amazon and Apple. Not Bob's Caravan Tours of Sutton Coalfield. 

You buy a Virgin partners' product, and assume the outfits they deal with have been properly vetted. Once problems arise you receive a 'computer says no' response. All perfectly legal. But I'm afraid 'caveat emptor' is a somewhat sneery attitude to take. Especially with Christmas approaching! 

I'm feeling totally ripped off, Paid nearly £800 for 6 experiences that ceased to exist 40 days after purchase. Now I have the opportunity to go basket weaving or whatever else I have no particular interest in. 

Toadsmail

Aylesbury_Duck said:

steve_naive said:

With all due respect, it's apples and oranges. 

VED's sole remit is to provide experiences. The risk they take is to partner up with sketchy outfits that de facto represent the Virgin brand. Apparently they could care less, which is fine, it's in the T&C's they quote when things go wrong:

'Not our problem'. 

I think the 'risk' Virgin take in having their reputation tarnished is nothing to be surprised about, we've seen it with their shoddy broadband practices, which is too tedious to go over again. They appear to be doing well out of it. 

I'm surprised at how VED is run, you are not. Let's leave it there. 

 

And there's your answer.  It's a model that works for them, so why would you be surprised they employ it?  As with many voucher schemes and gift cards, I suspect a percentage of people never redeem or fully redeem their vouchers, which presents a tidy profit to the voucher seller for almost no outlay.  Of the rest, the voucher provider will have screwed the actual service provider to the floor on price, so no wonder the service providers end up at risk of going bust. 

I suspect Virgin are astute enough to know there are enough people that hold the view that they're a reputable brand, so it doesn't really matter if a few customers lose out, there are plenty of others looking for a bargain.

I feel totally ripped off. All this appears to be in the T&C's when you look at it afterwards when things go wrong. When I paid my hard earned money to these sharks I don't recall being told if their supplier goes bust I would have no comeback. Had it been made cleared I would have gone direct to the supplier which I did do in the beginning but they were £12 more expensive pp than VED. I think its disgusting that they are able to trade like this and get away with it. 

Undervalued

Toadsmail said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

steve_naive said:

With all due respect, it's apples and oranges. 

VED's sole remit is to provide experiences. The risk they take is to partner up with sketchy outfits that de facto represent the Virgin brand. Apparently they could care less, which is fine, it's in the T&C's they quote when things go wrong:

'Not our problem'. 

I think the 'risk' Virgin take in having their reputation tarnished is nothing to be surprised about, we've seen it with their shoddy broadband practices, which is too tedious to go over again. They appear to be doing well out of it. 

I'm surprised at how VED is run, you are not. Let's leave it there. 

 

And there's your answer.  It's a model that works for them, so why would you be surprised they employ it?  As with many voucher schemes and gift cards, I suspect a percentage of people never redeem or fully redeem their vouchers, which presents a tidy profit to the voucher seller for almost no outlay.  Of the rest, the voucher provider will have screwed the actual service provider to the floor on price, so no wonder the service providers end up at risk of going bust. 

I suspect Virgin are astute enough to know there are enough people that hold the view that they're a reputable brand, so it doesn't really matter if a few customers lose out, there are plenty of others looking for a bargain.

I feel totally ripped off. All this appears to be in the T&C's when you look at it afterwards when things go wrong. When I paid my hard earned money to these sharks I don't recall being told if their supplier goes bust I would have no comeback. Had it been made cleared I would have gone direct to the supplier which I did do in the beginning but they were £12 more expensive pp than VED. I think its disgusting that they are able to trade like this and get away with it. 

I understand your frustration.

A good few years ago I was involved in running a club that earnt a significant proportion of its income from providing these sort of experiences for companies such as Virgin (not actually Virgin in our case back then but several similar packages such as Red Letter days).

As a club we needed the money but were almost embarrassed by how much people were paying via a third party. Those who came to us direct, and we did market extensively locally, got a much better experience for less than half the price.

The experience we offered was very weather dependent. Obviously if it was impossible or unsafe then people had to re-book. However the sales companies didn't go out of their way to make that easy and we were under quite a bit of pressure to go ahead on days that were possible / safe but just downright miserable!

Virtually all of these things can be done direct, usually far better and certainly far cheaper.

Toadsmail

Undervalued said:

Toadsmail said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

steve_naive said:

With all due respect, it's apples and oranges. 

VED's sole remit is to provide experiences. The risk they take is to partner up with sketchy outfits that de facto represent the Virgin brand. Apparently they could care less, which is fine, it's in the T&C's they quote when things go wrong:

'Not our problem'. 

I think the 'risk' Virgin take in having their reputation tarnished is nothing to be surprised about, we've seen it with their shoddy broadband practices, which is too tedious to go over again. They appear to be doing well out of it. 

I'm surprised at how VED is run, you are not. Let's leave it there. 

 

And there's your answer.  It's a model that works for them, so why would you be surprised they employ it?  As with many voucher schemes and gift cards, I suspect a percentage of people never redeem or fully redeem their vouchers, which presents a tidy profit to the voucher seller for almost no outlay.  Of the rest, the voucher provider will have screwed the actual service provider to the floor on price, so no wonder the service providers end up at risk of going bust. 

I suspect Virgin are astute enough to know there are enough people that hold the view that they're a reputable brand, so it doesn't really matter if a few customers lose out, there are plenty of others looking for a bargain.

I feel totally ripped off. All this appears to be in the T&C's when you look at it afterwards when things go wrong. When I paid my hard earned money to these sharks I don't recall being told if their supplier goes bust I would have no comeback. Had it been made cleared I would have gone direct to the supplier which I did do in the beginning but they were £12 more expensive pp than VED. I think its disgusting that they are able to trade like this and get away with it. 

I understand your frustration.

A good few years ago I was involved in running a club that earnt a significant proportion of its income from providing these sort of experiences for companies such as Virgin (not actually Virgin in our case back then but several similar packages such as Red Letter days).

As a club we needed the money but were almost embarrassed by how much people were paying via a third party. Those who came to us direct, and we did market extensively locally, got a much better experience for less than half the price.

The experience we offered was very weather dependent. Obviously if it was impossible or unsafe then people had to re-book. However the sales companies didn't go out of their way to make that easy and we were under quite a bit of pressure to go ahead on days that were possible / safe but just downright miserable!

Virtually all of these things can be done direct, usually far better and certainly far cheaper.

Virgin were £12pp cheaper, I contacted the supplier who wouldn't match Virgin, hence why I chose Virgin.

LaHostessAvecLaMostess

Toadsmail said:

longjohnjohnson said:

You, in effect, purchased a gift voucher for a specific retailer who has essentially gone bust.  I suspect your rights are the same as anyone else in that position.

Their T&C's do state that if the voucher is redeemed (and it appears it was as the code was given to the supplier) then no refund is due.

There's also

1. Variations

   Please note that Operators and Suppliers reserve the right to alter any part of an Experience or Product. Experiences and Voucher Products may occasionally be withdrawn for reasons outside of our control, and we cannot be held liable for any costs incurred as a result of this. Should this occur, you will be advised and offered the opportunity to exchange your Voucher for one with the same face value. If alternatives are not available, no refunds can be offered but a Gift Card for the same value will be offered. Please see "Cancellations" below for further information.

I don't think it's particularly unfair for them to offer a replacement voucher for a different experience.  It's arguably more than you're entitled to in law.

I would argue that the voucher was only redeemed when the experience was taken. Reserving a date with the supplier is not redeeming the voucher.
I paid for 6 experiences for my sons birthday that are longer available, within 40 days of purchase the supplier ceased the ability to trade, I am being forced into accepting alternatives that are not fit for our purposes. We paid to drive banger cars around a track, not go on a balloon ride etc. In effect I feel Virgin are ripping me off.

To be fair you can argue that the sky is green if you want, but it doesn't change the reality of it.

If you gave them the code then the voucher is redeemed.  And I suspect that they did redeem the code with Virgin within minutes of you giving it to them.  If you'd just made a reservation then there would be no need to give them the code.

This is all immaterial anyway as their T&C's say no refund is due 30 days after purchase.  With the caveat that it must not have been booked, which it was.

sheramber

 All this appears to be in the T&C's when you look at it afterwards

It is too late to read them afterwards. You should read them before you book.

Toadsmail

sheramber said:

 All this appears to be in the T&C's when you look at it afterwards

It is too late to read them afterwards. You should read them before you book.

Thank you for stating the obvious, being a non savvy consumer I didn't. I assumed Virgin would not be doing stuff like this. 

As they say "Assumption is the mother of all mess ups"

I haven't changed my mind about the experience I paid for, there is no similar alternative available to choose. I understand the T&C's are there to protect both parties, Especially protect Virgin from customers from changing their minds and wanting refunds. That's fair play but in this instance when a supplier ceases to trade and there is no other similar experience available I would have hoped tor a little common decency and goodwill from such a large company.

I will not use Virgin again

Alderbank

I think you are rather harsh on Virgin Travel Days who have done exactly what they promise in their T&Cs and offered you a gift card for the full value even though they will have lost out significantly when they passed on your payment to Extreme Dodgems.

If anybody the real villains are Birmingham City Council who decided to bulldoze the Park and sell the land to a developer, yet you don't have a bad word to say about them!