Virgin experience nightmare. Product no longer available, No offer of refund. Please help.

Toadsmail

Hello,

I'm experiencing great frustration with Virgin experience days (VED) and am looking for some advice.

I purchased 6 vouchers on the 24th September 2021 costing £762 for a specific event; Extreme Dodgems (Taking part in a banger race). I contacted the VED supplier who took the voucher numbers and we agreed for us to attend the experience on the 13th November.

Unfortunately I was contacted by the VED supplier at the end of October stating that they were unable to fulfill the experience as they could no longer trade, they had lost the use of their venue and would be closed until further notice. They advised me to seek a refund from where I purchased my vouchers.

I contacted VED explaining the situation but it soon became apparent that the representative was sending back generic responses without addressing any of my issues. I have cut and pasted email messages. I have deleted names so not to infringe MSE policy.
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Sent to VED Nov 7th

I purchased 6 places for extreme dodgems at Birmingham Wheels. I arranged with the supplier to attend on the 13 November. However they have just informed me that they have ceased trading and advised me to contact you for a refund.
Code; EDODG SP2

Received from VED Nov 8th

Thank you for your recent email and I hope you are keeping well and safe. Please know we have continued to be flexible with extensions/exchanges on our vouchers to ensure our customers do not lose out! The great news is our suppliers are now back operating and fully welcoming our customers to book and enjoy their experience with them! 

Whilst we are unable to offer a refund at this stage, we want to be sure we are doing the very best by our customers in terms of making sure you can enjoy one of our experiences.
Due to your voucher being purchased a little while ago, it is sadly out of our 30 day refund window we hold, meaning we are unable to process a refund for you. However please know we have options so you do not lose out on the balance your voucher holds.
Know your voucher is fully exchangeable! If the current voucher you hold is no longer suitable or you just wish to swap this for something else that takes your fancy from our website, please know this is absolutely an option available to you! You can do this via the My Voucher section of our website and can browse our experiences. If you have questions about any of our experiences, do just let me know as I would be more than happy to talk you through any of them for you. If for any reason it does not offer you the chance to "exchange" online, let me know your exchange choice and delivery address and I am sure I will be able to process this manually for you.

Due to your circumstances, if none of the above is currently suitable what I can offer on this one off occasion is to transfer the value of your voucher onto one of our Virgin Experience Days gift cards. This gift card then comes with a full 12 months for you to redeem on our website. The gift card can be spent on our website at the checkout as many times as you need until the full amount is used, or it can be put towards a purchase if the full amount does not cover the experience/s chosen. What you purchase with the gift card will then come with its own validity period for you to actually book and use it within, usually up to 12 months. If you would like to go for this option, please do let me know your chosen delivery address and I will get this processed and sent out to you as soon as possible?

I am so sorry we cannot honour your refund request but do hope the above helps to resolve this for you in some way! If you have any queries on any of the above just let me know and I will be more than happy to take the time to discuss these further with you.

I hope you have a lovely rest of your day and thank you again for taking the time to reach out to us, and for your patience.

Sent to VED Nov 8th
I'm sorry, I don't think you comprehend that the suppliers are no longer trading. They have no dates available for me to book.Their venue has been closed by the local council. There are no other similar experiences available.

Copy of email from supplier attached

Email from XXXX XXXXXXXX of extreme dodgems. Further to our recent communications relating to our problems at Birmingham Wheels Park (where our Extreme Dodgems events are held), we have now received notice from Birmingham City Council, who own the Park, that we will be allowed to stay there until the end of November.  However, we will not be allowed to continue trading after 31st October 2021. Obviously, we are challenging this decision, but it seems their mind has been made up.  You can imagine our complete amazement at their total disregard for the 1,000s of people who use the Park every week. There are four different tracks at Birmingham Wheels - Speed Skating, Rallying, Karting and Stock Cars. These sporting facilities cater for children as young as 6 and adults up to 80 year olds as well as disabled and people with mental illness.  The Council has decided to bulldoze the Park and sell the land to a developer who will build warehouses and factory units. This will be done despite the fact that their own Birmingham Development Plan says that they must replace these sporting facilities at Birmingham Wheels before any work begins.  They are refusing to do this.   We, at Motor Racing Live Ltd, are doing all we can to prevent this happening, but at the moment we must inform you that we are unable to organise the event which you have booked in November.   As mentioned in a previous email, you should contact the company that issued your voucher to seek a refund.  We have been running events at Birmingham Wheels for 38 years and we will continue our fight to “Save Birmingham Wheels”, as we have been doing for a long time.    Please accept our sincere apologies for all the inconvenience caused.  Sent Sept 9th 2021 I specifically bought vouchers for extreme dodgems, not general gift vouchers. As this experience is no longer available and there are no similar experiences on offer I again ask that you refund me. It is not through my fault that your supplier ceased trading nor that virgin experience can fulfill its obligation.  Had I purchased general gift vouchers I would accept an exchange, however this is clearly not the case. If you can not refund me please escalate this as I am very upset with your treatment of me and the whole situation.

Received from VED 9th Nov I am so sorry about this! However, due to your voucher being purchased a little while ago, it is now out of our 30 day refund period. We are also unable to refund exchanged vouchers. However, if this experience is no longer running, you are more then welcome to exchange your voucher for another experience, or alternatively, have the funds of this voucher transferred onto a gift card for you!    I hope this helps and I look forward to hearing from you! 
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Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!

At the end of the day I purchased a specific service that can now not be supplied. Non of the alternatives experiences meet my requirements. It is not an issue about me changing my mind etc.

What is the best option for me to pursue? I purchased through paypal but do not know if I can to go to them until I have done all I can to make my case bullet proof. Failing that what other actions can I take. Are Virgin in breach of my consumer rights, Should I contact the ombudsman or go through the small claims court etc.

Toadsmail

Received Nov 10th

Due to your voucher being purchased a little while ago, it is now out of our 30 day refund period. We are also unable to refund exchanged vouchers.

What we can offer to do due to the circumstances is transfer the funds onto one of our Virgin Experience Days gift cards.

 

Our gift cards are valid for a full 12 months from the date of issue and can then be redeemed on our website when you wish, on any experience/s of your choice. This then gives you more flexibility and time to decide what to put this towards and to enjoy one of our many experiences in the near future.

 

Then, the experience you purchase using your gift card will come with its own validity period (usually up to 9-12 months) for you to actually book and take the experience within. Therefore, you technically are able to wait nearly a whole year to buy something else from our website to then book and enjoy one of our experiences within the validity period the new voucher will come with

Toadsmail

Note, I received the message on the 9th then responded on the 9th. Listed in the wrong order

longjohnjohnson

You, in effect, purchased a gift voucher for a specific retailer who has essentially gone bust.  I suspect your rights are the same as anyone else in that position.

Their T&C's do state that if the voucher is redeemed (and it appears it was as the code was given to the supplier) then no refund is due.

There's also

1. Variations

   Please note that Operators and Suppliers reserve the right to alter any part of an Experience or Product. Experiences and Voucher Products may occasionally be withdrawn for reasons outside of our control, and we cannot be held liable for any costs incurred as a result of this. Should this occur, you will be advised and offered the opportunity to exchange your Voucher for one with the same face value. If alternatives are not available, no refunds can be offered but a Gift Card for the same value will be offered. Please see "Cancellations" below for further information.

I don't think it's particularly unfair for them to offer a replacement voucher for a different experience.  It's arguably more than you're entitled to in law.

Aylesbury_Duck

I agree, I think you've ended up better off than you might have done, since you redeemed the voucher before the provider went bust.  I think the best you can hope for is a new voucher, which they appear to have offered.  There's a risk that if you don't accept it, you will end up with nothing.

It's why many people avoid these voucher schemes, and book directly with the provider itself.  If you'd booked directly, via credit card for example, then you could get a refund via your card.  Buying vouchers from a third party, using Paypal, is a recipe for trouble.  You've broken the link with the provider, and any link to your card.

GenuineAccount

Just out of interest why did you book through Virgin Experience Days instead of direct with the supplier?

Was it because you used some workplace discount scheme or similar to get it even cheaper; because I'm thinking if that's the case then you might end up in a position where you get a refund for the VED but that goes back to the workplace discount scheme, so then you still stuck with a voucher effectively on that scheme. 

wesleyad

Also to add, you may have had the intention of only buying the voucher for the Dodgems, but in fact you have bought a generic virgin voucher. Virgin are saying you still have this so they have fulfilled their end of the contract.

Put it another way, you buy £500 of currys vouchers to buy a specific laptop, which then goes out of stock. Curreys would not have to refund you the £500, they would say spend it on something else. The fact you only wanted the laptop is irrelevant. As others have said, this is a reason to be careful when converting cash into vouchers.

steve_naive

longjohnjohnson said:

You, in effect, purchased a gift voucher for a specific retailer who has essentially gone bust.  I suspect your rights are the same as anyone else in that position.

Their T&C's do state that if the voucher is redeemed (and it appears it was as the code was given to the supplier) then no refund is due.

There's also

1. Variations

   Please note that Operators and Suppliers reserve the right to alter any part of an Experience or Product. Experiences and Voucher Products may occasionally be withdrawn for reasons outside of our control, and we cannot be held liable for any costs incurred as a result of this. Should this occur, you will be advised and offered the opportunity to exchange your Voucher for one with the same face value. If alternatives are not available, no refunds can be offered but a Gift Card for the same value will be offered. Please see "Cancellations" below for further information.

I don't think it's particularly unfair for them to offer a replacement voucher for a different experience.  It's arguably more than you're entitled to in law.

Without wishing to dispute the legality of the T&C's, does it not trouble you that Virgin can advertise something under their banner for which they essentially eschew all liability for should things go wrong?

People unwittingly buy into the brand thinking they are somehow covered by Virgin's reputation. Which is clearly not the case.

My family recently bought an experience for our elderly father that turned out to be as legitimate as a 6 pound note. Lost £100 with zero comeback. Virgin simply replied 'read our terms and conditions'. 

Great.

Aylesbury_Duck

steve_naive said:

longjohnjohnson said:

You, in effect, purchased a gift voucher for a specific retailer who has essentially gone bust.  I suspect your rights are the same as anyone else in that position.

Their T&C's do state that if the voucher is redeemed (and it appears it was as the code was given to the supplier) then no refund is due.

There's also

1. Variations

   Please note that Operators and Suppliers reserve the right to alter any part of an Experience or Product. Experiences and Voucher Products may occasionally be withdrawn for reasons outside of our control, and we cannot be held liable for any costs incurred as a result of this. Should this occur, you will be advised and offered the opportunity to exchange your Voucher for one with the same face value. If alternatives are not available, no refunds can be offered but a Gift Card for the same value will be offered. Please see "Cancellations" below for further information.

I don't think it's particularly unfair for them to offer a replacement voucher for a different experience.  It's arguably more than you're entitled to in law.

Without wishing to dispute the legality of the T&C's, does it not trouble you that Virgin can advertise something under their banner for which they essentially eschew all liability for should things go wrong?

People unwittingly buy into the brand thinking they are somehow covered by Virgin's reputation. Which is clearly not the case.

My family recently bought an experience for our elderly father that turned out to be as legitimate as a 6 pound note. Lost £100 with zero comeback. Virgin simply replied 'read our terms and conditions'. 

Great.

No, it doesn't because the information is freely available before you buy, and it's clear you're buying a voucher from Virgin, not the experience itself.  As for Virgin's reputation, what about it?  Is it particularly good for extreme dodgem experiences?

Voucher schemes more generally trouble me though, which is why I don't use them.  Whether it's a store gift voucher, a wowcher, groupon or whatever, you're basically trading away your ability to easily exercise your consumer rights, for what is supposedly a cheaper price.  It's a calculated risk.   Just buy things properly, directly from the retailer or service provider, and preferably by card, then you have better protection.

LaHostessAvecLaMostess

steve_naive said:

longjohnjohnson said:

You, in effect, purchased a gift voucher for a specific retailer who has essentially gone bust.  I suspect your rights are the same as anyone else in that position.

Their T&C's do state that if the voucher is redeemed (and it appears it was as the code was given to the supplier) then no refund is due.

There's also

1. Variations

   Please note that Operators and Suppliers reserve the right to alter any part of an Experience or Product. Experiences and Voucher Products may occasionally be withdrawn for reasons outside of our control, and we cannot be held liable for any costs incurred as a result of this. Should this occur, you will be advised and offered the opportunity to exchange your Voucher for one with the same face value. If alternatives are not available, no refunds can be offered but a Gift Card for the same value will be offered. Please see "Cancellations" below for further information.

I don't think it's particularly unfair for them to offer a replacement voucher for a different experience.  It's arguably more than you're entitled to in law.

Without wishing to dispute the legality of the T&C's, does it not trouble you that Virgin can advertise something under their banner for which they essentially eschew all liability for should things go wrong?

People unwittingly buy into the brand thinking they are somehow covered by Virgin's reputation. Which is clearly not the case.

My family recently bought an experience for our elderly father that turned out to be as legitimate as a 6 pound note. Lost £100 with zero comeback. Virgin simply replied 'read our terms and conditions'. 

Great.

No, as I think most of us are fully aware of what gift cards entail, and perhaps more specifically what we're giving up by using them. Which is one of the reasons why I never give them as gifts and would only purchase them with some sort of financial incentive to do so (along with as much confidence as possible that the retailer is going to stay in business/not screw me around.)

This is really no different than buying a gift card at a Tesco checkout and the company the gift card is for going bump a month later.  I wouldn't expect Tesco to refund me, they fulfilled their part of the bargain by giving me the gift card in return for my cash.

I understand that in order to have any realistic chance of getting my money back I need as direct a link to the "retailer" as possible.  Gift cards put a massive barrier in the way of that.

steve_naive

LaHostessAvecLaMostess said:

steve_naive said:

longjohnjohnson said:

You, in effect, purchased a gift voucher for a specific retailer who has essentially gone bust.  I suspect your rights are the same as anyone else in that position.

Their T&C's do state that if the voucher is redeemed (and it appears it was as the code was given to the supplier) then no refund is due.

There's also

1. Variations

   Please note that Operators and Suppliers reserve the right to alter any part of an Experience or Product. Experiences and Voucher Products may occasionally be withdrawn for reasons outside of our control, and we cannot be held liable for any costs incurred as a result of this. Should this occur, you will be advised and offered the opportunity to exchange your Voucher for one with the same face value. If alternatives are not available, no refunds can be offered but a Gift Card for the same value will be offered. Please see "Cancellations" below for further information.

I don't think it's particularly unfair for them to offer a replacement voucher for a different experience.  It's arguably more than you're entitled to in law.

Without wishing to dispute the legality of the T&C's, does it not trouble you that Virgin can advertise something under their banner for which they essentially eschew all liability for should things go wrong?

People unwittingly buy into the brand thinking they are somehow covered by Virgin's reputation. Which is clearly not the case.

My family recently bought an experience for our elderly father that turned out to be as legitimate as a 6 pound note. Lost £100 with zero comeback. Virgin simply replied 'read our terms and conditions'. 

Great.

No, as I think most of us are fully aware of what gift cards entail, and perhaps more specifically what we're giving up by using them. Which is one of the reasons why I never give them as gifts and would only purchase them with some sort of financial incentive to do so (along with as much confidence as possible that the retailer is going to stay in business/not screw me around.)

This is really no different than buying a gift card at a Tesco checkout and the company the gift card is for going bump a month later.  I wouldn't expect Tesco to refund me, they fulfilled their part of the bargain by giving me the gift card in return for my cash.

I understand that in order to have any realistic chance of getting my money back I need as direct a link to the "retailer" as possible.  Gift cards put a massive barrier in the way of that.

Let's not pretend that most people are canny consumers. If they were, Virgin Experience Days would not exist. 

Last time I checked, Tesco provide gift cards from major outlets such as Amazon and Apple. Not Bob's Caravan Tours of Sutton Coalfield. 

You buy a Virgin partners' product, and assume the outfits they deal with have been properly vetted. Once problems arise you receive a 'computer says no' response. All perfectly legal. But I'm afraid 'caveat emptor' is a somewhat sneery attitude to take. Especially with Christmas approaching!