Crypto.com earn 10% interest on tgbp

Scottex99

Personally got 140% initially on my favourite single sided farm whilst holding the token which did a 10x in price from my original buy position.

Don't confuse them.

I'm getting 115% on my AXS that I bought when they were about $4 and are now c.$150.

Must remember to pay my CGT

Aegis

darren232002 said:

Aegis said:

I expect you're right.  Even if they lent out GBP at 12%, there are still a lot more lenders to go to that undercut that rate, so presumably the default rate is pretty high for unsecured lending at this level.  It wouldn't surprise me to hear that after defaults and profit for the exchange, there would need to be almost as many depositors as borrowers, which again doesn't seem likely.

Default rate on crypto loans currently circa 0%. Amazing to see lots of people that supposedly get crypto and have done lots of research have no idea about how stablecoin based loans actually work.

And the default rates for NINJA loans in 2006 was acceptably low. Doesn't mean they were a good idea, or low risk. Almost anything can seem like a good idea until it isn't.

Default rates. And making money by lending it out at double the APR. Its a good chuckle but its nowhere near the reality. I've posted exactly how its done, go find the posts.

No. If you can't be bothered to post the information in a relevant thread, don't expect me to be bothered to go looking for your answer. The onus is on your to provide the information if you want your claim to be taken seriously, otherwise it can be dismissed through Hitchen's Razor.

steampowered said:

I don't understand. Why would charging interest on a loan at 12% be a "threat" to the banks?

The cheapest mortgages are less than 1%. The cheapest personal loans are 2.8%. The cheapest credit cards are 0%.

I'll take my bank interest rate, thank you very much.

I could take out a loan right now for tens of thousands of dollars for 1%. Funds in my account within 15 minutes. With no KYC. 

Your headline loan rates aren't given to everyone. TSB advertises 2.8%. Its listed as the cheapest rate for £25k loans right now on MSE. I've had a bank account with them for 5 years, six figure salary, have zero debt and no dependents - they offered my a £12k loan at 13%.

This potentially indicates that with reasonable KYC you just aren't a good lending prospect. The fact that you can obtain a loan anyway from another sort really highlights a major failure of this proposed system, i.e. that you can get funds with little to no KYC. This isn't a good thing, it's indicative that some people who can't be trusted to tie their own shoes will be extended finance without checking whether they are likely to pay back the loan.

chamelion said:

A significant number are. It saves them 20% tax at a cost of 12%. This isn't like borrowing from a bank.

Ding Ding. We have a winner.

We do? There doesn't seem to be any substance to this claim, so it's really difficult to know how this person is proposing to save 20% tax by borrowing an asset rather than currency.

Malthusian said:

Leaving aside the question of exactly what they are doing with borrowed tokens that creates a liability to income tax (CGT would seem more likely), whatever it is is still subject to income tax whether you do it with crypto, fiat or sheep futures. Evading tax isn't saving it.

Taking money as a loan against assets to avoid paying CGT is not tax evasion.

It's not saving tax either, as the CGT still needs to be paid when the asset is eventually sold. Unless the plan is to hold the asset until death or spend however many years cycling gains to use the CGT allowance. But again, this isn't unique - portfolio borrowing is a real thing, and can be done at rates much lower than 12% for traditional investments.

User232002

Aegis said:

And the default rates for NINJA loans in 2006 was acceptably low. Doesn't mean they were a good idea, or low risk. Almost anything can seem like a good idea until it isn't.

No. If you can't be bothered to post the information in a relevant thread, don't expect me to be bothered to go looking for your answer. The onus is on your to provide the information if you want your claim to be taken seriously, otherwise it can be dismissed through Hitchen's Razor.

This potentially indicates that with reasonable KYC you just aren't a good lending prospect. The fact that you can obtain a loan anyway from another sort really highlights a major failure of this proposed system, i.e. that you can get funds with little to no KYC. This isn't a good thing, it's indicative that some people who can't be trusted to tie their own shoes will be extended finance without checking whether they are likely to pay back the loan.

We do? There doesn't seem to be any substance to this claim, so it's really difficult to know how this person is proposing to save 20% tax by borrowing an asset rather than currency.

It's not saving tax either, as the CGT still needs to be paid when the asset is eventually sold. Unless the plan is to hold the asset until death or spend however many years cycling gains to use the CGT allowance. But again, this isn't unique - portfolio borrowing is a real thing, and can be done at rates much lower than 12% for traditional investments.

You're missing the point. They aren't approximately 0% because they havent begun to default yet, they are ~0% because they are structurally designed to be that way. The fact you don't know this makes it clear you have absolutely zero knowledge of how crypto based loans are structured. You probably shouldn't be making comments on things if you don't understand how they work.

Aegis said:

No. If you can't be bothered to post the information in a relevant thread, don't expect me to be bothered to go looking for your answer. The onus is on your to provide the information if you want your claim to be taken seriously, otherwise it can be dismissed through Hitchen's Razor.

I've posted that information in more or less every relevant thread already. Its not a valid or fair discussion tactic to continually create new threads, ask the same old tired questions and then demand the answer be reposted here in order to 'be taken seriously.' Funnily enough, this is a tactic used by flat earther's to counter the photographic evidence that you mentioned - "I didn't see that photo taken, therefore it is inadmissable as evidence because it could have been doctored." Its a circular argument that means evidence can always be, conveniently, denied because its not 'current.' I'm not your butler; I've told you that I've been getting 140% interest on an asset that also did a 10x in price or that you can get 10-30% interest on USD linked stablecoins. That's orders of magnitude higher than anything in your world and I would be going looking for it in the expectation that, if the information was indeed correct, it would be time well spent.

The other point to make here is that there was a crypto thread where people asked questions and gave information freely. I found it useful and one of the posts there improved my returns by 2-3%. This space is remarkably helpful to those that seek out knowledge in the right way. I've stated previously that this forum really isnt the best place to learn about crypto and I want to give enough crumbs to those genuinely interested to go and find out more. I'm not here to write how to guides for people that can't think for themselves.

Aegis said:

This potentially indicates that with reasonable KYC you just aren't a good lending prospect. The fact that you can obtain a loan anyway from another sort really highlights a major failure of this proposed system, i.e. that you can get funds with little to no KYC. This isn't a good thing, it's indicative that some people who can't be trusted to tie their own shoes will be extended finance without checking whether they are likely to pay back the loan.

You are again showing how little you know about the loan system by suggesting that people will default on the loan without KYC. You really have no business discussing this because you don't even know the basics of how it operates.

Aegis said:

We do? There doesn't seem to be any substance to this claim, so it's really difficult to know how this person is proposing to save 20% tax by borrowing an asset rather than currency.

Yes, we do. From just this comment, I know this poster understands exactly how the system works and why people are using it.

Aegis said:

It's not saving tax either, as the CGT still needs to be paid when the asset is eventually sold. Unless the plan is to hold the asset until death or spend however many years cycling gains to use the CGT allowance. But again, this isn't unique - portfolio borrowing is a real thing, and can be done at rates much lower than 12% for traditional investments.

Many people, myself included, intend to do exactly that with their BTC. The 12% comment is erroneous and comes from a non Bitcoiner making assumptions. As I said, you can borrow from as low as 1% with no KYC in 15 minutes. I think that beats a lot of traditional options.

User232002

Scottex99 said:

Personally got 140% initially on my favourite single sided farm whilst holding the token which did a 10x in price from my original buy position.

Don't confuse them.

I'm getting 115% on my AXS that I bought when they were about $4 and are now c.$150.

Must remember to pay my CGT

Fair point!

Whats your exit strategy? I missed AXS. I haven't looked in to the tokenomics so this is a thoroughly uneducated view and I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise, but I assume that price can only go up because of increased users and users are only joining because they can make money playing the game. I can't forsee a future world where the PH sustains itself as a gaming based economy. Also, its just a really naff game. Generally thinking that I'll leave the gaming sector for a couple of years until something I like comes along but things like Star Atlas look promising.

Aegis

darren232002 said:

Aegis said:

And the default rates for NINJA loans in 2006 was acceptably low. Doesn't mean they were a good idea, or low risk. Almost anything can seem like a good idea until it isn't.

No. If you can't be bothered to post the information in a relevant thread, don't expect me to be bothered to go looking for your answer. The onus is on your to provide the information if you want your claim to be taken seriously, otherwise it can be dismissed through Hitchen's Razor.

This potentially indicates that with reasonable KYC you just aren't a good lending prospect. The fact that you can obtain a loan anyway from another sort really highlights a major failure of this proposed system, i.e. that you can get funds with little to no KYC. This isn't a good thing, it's indicative that some people who can't be trusted to tie their own shoes will be extended finance without checking whether they are likely to pay back the loan.

We do? There doesn't seem to be any substance to this claim, so it's really difficult to know how this person is proposing to save 20% tax by borrowing an asset rather than currency.

It's not saving tax either, as the CGT still needs to be paid when the asset is eventually sold. Unless the plan is to hold the asset until death or spend however many years cycling gains to use the CGT allowance. But again, this isn't unique - portfolio borrowing is a real thing, and can be done at rates much lower than 12% for traditional investments.

You're missing the point. They aren't approximately 0% because they havent begun to default yet, they are ~0% because they are structurally designed to be that way. The fact you don't know this makes it clear you have absolutely zero knowledge of how crypto based loans are structured. You probably shouldn't be making comments on things if you don't understand how they work.

Then explain how these are structured. If the loan assets are only lent out with the caveat that they will automatically be repaid at a given point, then they aren't as valuable as an unencumbered asset, if the loan assets are free of that sort of burden, allowing the holder to freely make decisions on what to do with them, then defaults can happen. There's just no feasible way to structure loans in such a way that they can't be defaulted on.

Aegis said:

No. If you can't be bothered to post the information in a relevant thread, don't expect me to be bothered to go looking for your answer. The onus is on your to provide the information if you want your claim to be taken seriously, otherwise it can be dismissed through Hitchen's Razor.

I've posted that information in more or less every relevant thread already. Its not a valid or fair discussion tactic to continually create new threads, ask the same old tired questions and then demand the answer be reposted here in order to 'be taken seriously.' Funnily enough, this is a tactic used by flat earther's to counter the photographic evidence that you mentioned - "I didn't see that photo taken, therefore it is inadmissable as evidence because it could have been doctored." Its a circular argument that means evidence can always be, conveniently, denied because its not 'current.' I'm not your butler; I've told you that I've been getting 140% interest on an asset that also did a 10x in price or that you can get 10-30% interest on USD linked stablecoins. That's orders of magnitude higher than anything in your world and I would be going looking for it in the expectation that, if the information was indeed correct, it would be time well spent.

The other point to make here is that there was a crypto thread where people asked questions and gave information freely. I found it useful and one of the posts there improved my returns by 2-3%. This space is remarkably helpful to those that seek out knowledge in the right way. I've stated previously that this forum really isnt the best place to learn about crypto and I want to give enough crumbs to those genuinely interested to go and find out more. I'm not here to write how to guides for people that can't think for themselves.

No, instead you're here making snide remarks. Clearly that really helps your case.

lozzy1965

The Big Short is a good film by the way   It's about the analysis of the lending and due diligence done by the 'shorters' with regard to the lending that went on in the build up to the banking crisis of 2008.
I'm not a crypto basher, I'm a crypto 'non-understander', but I don't see how these 10% returns stand up under scrutiny, but then I am in the 'if it sounds too good to be true...' camp.

Malthusian

Taking money as a loan against assets to avoid paying CGT is not tax evasion.

Borrowing money doesn't avoid CGT. Borrowing costs are sometimes relievable against income tax in certain circumstances, but not against gains. Evading tax because your head is too full of crypto bro "staking" jargon to learn the rules is still evading tax.

Highly profitable though. Particularly back in the day when you could get rates of 100%/yr on the strongest, safest protocols. 300% ish on the riskier ones. Personally got 140% initially on my favourite single sided farm whilst holding the token which did a 10x in price from my original buy position.

Early entrants made 100%pa on the "strongest, safest protocols" but returns have already slowed to a mere 10%pa? Well this definitely sounds like an exciting trend and a good time to put my money on the table.

Zola.

lozzy1965 said:

The Big Short is a good film by the way   It's about the analysis of the lending and due diligence done by the 'shorters' with regard to the lending that went on in the build up to the banking crisis of 2008.
I'm not a crypto basher, I'm a crypto 'non-understander', but I don't see how these 10% returns stand up under scrutiny, but then I am in the 'if it sounds too good to be true...' camp.

Ironically it's all about our banker overlords who screwed over a generation of homeowners. 
This is perhaps why the whole crypto industry is such a thing, it's a middle finger to the old establishment. I don't like what a lot of it has become with the casino exchanges and useless tokens, but here we are. 

The Bitcoin white paper came out at the end of 2008.

In the Genesis Block (the first bitcoin block created), in the notes, the following headline from the Times was added

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

Malthusian

Then explain how these are structured. If the loan assets are only lent out with the caveat that they will automatically be repaid at a given point, then they aren't as valuable as an unencumbered asset, if the loan assets are free of that sort of burden, allowing the holder to freely make decisions on what to do with them, then defaults can happen. There's just no feasible way to structure loans in such a way that they can't be defaulted on.

Smart contracts bro.

Basically a smart contract is a piece of software code which you build into the tokens you lend out, which looks like this:

10 {loan_term_days = 365}

20 token_hodler = SomeBro

30 IF {start_date + days_elapsed > loan_term_days} THEN {token_hodler = Malthusian}

40 {Malthusian_owns_gold_catamaran} = TRUE

50 {catamaran_length_feet} = 40

60 GOTO 10

And the beautiful thing is that computers have to follow their code and physically can't do anything else. So if you write a piece of code that says your coins have to pay 10% interest and then revert to you at the end of the term, it's guaranteed to happen.

User232002

Aegis said:

Then explain how these are structured. If the loan assets are only lent out with the caveat that they will automatically be repaid at a given point, then they aren't as valuable as an unencumbered asset, if the loan assets are free of that sort of burden, allowing the holder to freely make decisions on what to do with them, then defaults can happen. There's just no feasible way to structure loans in such a way that they can't be defaulted on.

A+ financial knowledge there Mr. Chartered Financial Planner. 

Aegis said:

No, instead you're here making snide remarks. Clearly that really helps your case.

How should you treat someone who repeatedly asks questions that could be answered with a simple search of the forum?  There's one main Bitcoin thread and/or its not like I have 5.5k posts. Independent research isn't a dirty thing to participate in.

Malthusian said:

Borrowing money doesn't avoid CGT. Borrowing costs are sometimes relievable against income tax in certain circumstances, but not against gains. Evading tax because your head is too full of crypto bro "staking" jargon to learn the rules is still evading tax.

Owning BTC and never selling it means you are never liable for CGT. Meanwhile, you can borrow against those assets at low rates to unlock your capital. Nothing wrong with that, happens all the time. Tax avoidance is perfectly legal.

Malthusian said:

Early entrants made 100%pa on the "strongest, safest protocols" but returns have already slowed to a mere 10%pa? Well this definitely sounds like an exciting trend and a good time to put my money on the table.

Showing those excellent critical thinking skills again I see...I referred to "140% APY on an asset that has done a 10x" vs "10%-30% on stablecoins."

With a modicum of analysis, we should be able to conclude that stablecoins aren't doing a 10x and it makes perfect sense that you would expect a lower rate on a dollar pegged asset compared to a market priced one. One has not become the other. These comments were made about competing ends of the market.

I've only ever suggested the stablecoin rate here for others because most people here would have no idea how to pick a suitable token to farm or stake in order to ensure the rate isn't negated by a fall in value.