A Bankers View, Open Letter To Martin Lewis And His Followers On Bank Charges.

rog2

BANKER_GIRL wrote: »

my situation as follows, i am 21 and my boyfriend is 25, we both work for the bank so we have a joint mortgage with them that is excellent,

and in regards to Tootsies figures, there are many many on this thread way back from the 2nd or 3rd page onwards, its good to have a supporter.

Well, BG - unfortunately we find ourselves in total disagreement - again. Hardly the spirit of Christmas - but also not of my volition.
I am pleased that you and your boyfriend both work at the same bank, and that you were able to take out an 'excellent' mortgage with them. Can I assume that you got your mortgage at a 'preferential' rate, ie a rate that is lower than that which your Bank would offer to its normal customers? I am not criticising you, if this is the case, but would ask you to consider, for a moment, that since you are struggling to make ends meet, how much harder is it for those of us who have to repay mortgages at the 'standard' rates?
If, on the other hand, you do not qualify for preferential mortgage terms, then will you not be vulnerable to market fluctuations, in the same way as the rest of us, in which case £15.00 a month is hardly a great safety net?

I do hope, BG, that your employers reciprocate your loyalty to them - they are not, generally, well known for their commitment to 'people'.

With regard to the figures, I have read through, again, the nine posts that the said poster has submitted to this thread - the only 'statistic', that I can find, is that he has had a Bank Account for over 25 years. Other than that there are only two other sets of figures - 70's 80's - which relate to two decades in the last century. Hardly a factual re-inforcement to your argument that Banks have the absolute right to impose and collect punitive charges and penalties.

I have, on the other hand, seen several legally supported posts which point to punitive charges as being unlawfull and, therefore, illegal. It is because of the need to avoid any ambiguity that the High Court is being asked to 'rule' in this case. Whatever the ruling, we will all have to respect it. Those of us who have claimed back, or are in the process of claiming back, punitive Bank Charges are within our rights to continue to prepare our cases which may, or may not be legal, dependant on the High Court Ruling - we have to wait and see.

You have, BG, come on to a forum whose stated aim is the opposition of punitive charges by Financial Institutions such as the one that you profess to work for. You can hardly expect a 'warm' welcome, yet we have afforded you the right to state your case, in the same way that we respect the right of others, who represent different, and often less professional, sectors of the financial industry in its widest sense.

Please do not automatically expect us to change our views because they do not fit in with yours.

Charis

fiveyearplan wrote: »

While we are on the subject of banks and bank charges what about the mortgage exit fees? How do banks justify the THEFT of money when they take more money than the original mortgage contracts says it will cost to exit the mortgage?

Have you seen this article of Martin's, on this site? http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/mortgage-fees

HTH Charis

tealady

Rog Well said. We can all fall victim to debt (I did and stupidly tried to hide from it). Perhaps BG is one of those people who have never been in debt for any reason. Or perhaps its a case of "To understand a man walk a mile in his shoes", I hope she never has to walk the path some posters on this site have trodden.
BG if you are reading this just remember not everyone is good with money, this site is not encouraging people to break the law, merely to have it clarified.

Charis

A couple of relevant statistics for anyone still feeling sympathy for the banks:

BARCLAYS PROFITS have soared to £1.36billion, despite an £87million charge to cover refunded overdraft fees. (June 30th, 2007, http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/article261720.ece )
That's just one bank.

CONSUMER BORROWING in Britain now stands at more than £1.3 trillion.
THE AVERAGE ADULT now owes £33,000 through mortgages, credit cards and personal loans compared with £17,000 in 2000, the international accountancy firm PricewaterhouseCoopers claims.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/26/ndebt126.xml

It is impossible to justify the obscene profits that are being made by these institutions.

It is interesting that anyone should feel the need to explain their choice of banking as a job. It used to be considered a respectable career with good prospects.

Now the unstoppable greed of these moneylenders is that we are daily bombarded with advertisements to borrow for holidays, home extensions, new cars. Just take out a credit card or a loan and have what you long for but actually can't afford.

More ominously, there is a very close tie between the high street financial institutions and the Bank of England, as illustrated by the recent bailing out of Northern Rock. How is it that irresponsible lending is not only allowed, but actively encouraged by the government?

Charis

fiveyearplan

Thanks Charis. Yes, I have successfully reclaimed my excess mortgage exit fees and it only took a 10 minute phone call.

tifo

at 21 years of age, the poster cannot have much 'professional' experience and has admitted in the post that charges are levied as a 'deterrant'. They seem to be taken in by their employers waffle that they think consumers on here will also believe.

Kimitatsu

Dear Banker Girl

I dont often post on this board but YOUR post has driven me to reply to your post. I work for a well known charity as part of their money advice team, and so feel that I am well versed in the way that the banking institutions work. In my experience your charges are punitive in the extreme and it is only when your customers no longer have the ability to either pay the charges or the credit rating to take out a loan to cover the charges are you really prepared to help them by arranging a realistic payment plan that can be afforded by your customer.

However to answer the points brought up in your original post:

We will help customers who want to be helped. And only then when they intend to work with us to help them out of the hole they have got themselves into, it is a two way thing, and when it works, it is beautiful.

So please can you explain to me how the banking institutions have helped those who live in rural areas on benefits who have no access to a free cash machine? I work not only as a debt adviser but in the role of financial capability officer and am frequently struck by the amount of money these vunerable groups could save IF they could pay via direct debit. However as many of my clients have explained to me, they get £59 a week for a family on income support and if they have to ensure the money is in the account the week before to ensure they dont incur charges then it is not possible for them to do. A £35 charge out of their weekly spend equates to a 59% penalty charge for these groups - would you think that was fair if your employer deducted 59% of your wages for going overdrawn one week?

I have had letters sent to my office from customers previously in dire straits who I have helped just by simply going through their account and figuring out what is going wrong and how to budget, as some people simply do not know how

Fantastic for those people who you have helped but how about the banking institutions funding projects to roll out across the whole country to reach all of those from 8 to 80? That way everyone could benefit and the banks would not have the need to charge such punitive amounts to those who cannot afford them, and they may have a happy customer base. Of course it would mean that their profits would be severely dented............

You seem to convey the message that customers are in a fight with their banks when truly all we want to do is make sure they do not continue to go overdrawn and hurt their own future. So our charges are meant to act simply as a deterrent. And for close to 80% of customers this is highly successful. I have been brought up to believe that I should be ashamed if I ever went overdrawn and got charged. And I have been overdrawn, and I have been charged, and I have paid up, because when this happened I knew it was my own fault, something that would not have happened if I had been more careful, and since then, even before working with the bank I have not gone overdrawn, simply because of the sheer shame of it. And I cannot understand or sympathise with the customers that feel they should not take responsibility for their own actions.

I find this a naive point of view - what about when the banks take charges out of your account and then charge you for being overdrawn? What about when companies take a DD in error which then bouces other payments? Where is the shame in that? What happens when you apply to the bank for an overdraft and it is declined but you have explained that you are about to go overdrawn due to circumstances out of your control? The society that you seem to condone leads all those who for whatever reason are having difficulties with their finances (death, divorce, credit limits being cut, interest rates rising, loss of job etc etc) but to you that should be an unmittigated source of shame! WHat next should we be looking at debtors prisons, work houses and insdustrial schools for troublesome youths???

My true message is that customers need to take responsibility for their own money and not rely on what you say, You have no real contact with some of the customers you claim to wish to help, and you have no idea how you affect their treatment of bank workers. You have no idea how many times I have been sworn at, screamed at and verbally abused by customers who believe what you say. You seriously need to look at what you saying to people and the message you are giving as it is simply wrong.

I agree with you that no-one deserves to be shouted at, screamed at or abused but these people have been driven to the brink by the attitudes of such institutions such as yours, who whilst they have your custom and they are making money out of you are keen to throw any number of financial products at you whether they are suitable or appropriate. However if things go wrong then its off to court to get back whatever money you can get.

I do have real contact with your customers and I could give you chapter and verse as to the stories I have heard, I have had real experience in talking to some of these banking institutions who either dont want to know or will pass the customer onto a debt management company who will charge them for the same advice that can be given free of charge. One customer of mine had to drive 90 miles to speak to her branch manager only to be told that she could not take out a loan to cover her debts - surely something that could have been said over the phone?

If the experts on this site are so wrong then why have the banks fought to keep this case out of the courts for so long? How can it be cheaper to pay off the customers who have asked for their charges back than risk taking it to court? Surely if the banks are so sure of their footing then the chances of them losing in a court of law must be negligable and so the cost of a law suit would be easily negated by the charges they rake in year on year.

The OFT has already dismissed one defence from the banking community, and it is no coincidence that banks are ramping up their debt management and debt collecting operations in the hope that people will agree to pay charges before this case ends up in the courts.

This means if you were overdrawn for 67.99 for two days you would be charged a total maximum of 55pounds depending on what time everything happened

So for someone on benefits you would fine them in effect one weeks money for taking a two day loan? I imagine that you do not have children, because faced with the prospect of not being able to feed your children for a week because of an error would be devestating to most people but as you have already stated you feel that that is entirely appropriate.

Anyway, my advice to you would be to get your savings put away pdq and then batten down the hatches, cos when bad luck does strike, make sure you are ready for it. Sometimes people are not ready for it and get into difficulty – that’s when you could actually make a real difference by helping them out instead of kicking them while they are down. Finally, take your training for what it is – a guideline and then put some humanity in it and your customers will treat you much better.

This says it all and far more eloquently than I think I would have been! If you want to see the other side of life try ringing your local CAB and asking if you can volunteer for a while then see if your opinion is still the same.

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Smasher

Thats all really good & well thought out Kimitatsu. However, the OP is only here to fire insults & throw in a little mis-information to stir things up a bit. She has raised not a single valid point or statistic and has a TRoll who 'supports' her. Quite what is to support is anyones guess.

Sure, there has been some interesting debate that has followed, but not a single worthwhile sentence that can be traced back to the content of the OP, only an argument between the enlightened and the ignorant..

It really is time to close this thread & treat the OP with the ignorance it deserves.

reetnproper

Dear BG,

How dare you! You sit there and spout the company line, telling us what a beautiful thing' it is when customers and bank work together. Well you've either been brainwashed into thinking that your organisation is a kind, thoughtful organisation, with the best interests of its' customers at heart OR your actually part of the marketing/propaganda machine, trying to bamboozle customers into thinking that the banks are perfect little angels and we are totally wrong to try to reclaim some of the excessive charges. Either way, time for some home truths.

When I first realised that there was going to be a small problem with my account I did the right thing. I went to my branch and asked for help in working out a strategy to rectify the situation and yet still pay my essential bills but they couldn't help me. Oh and by essential bills I mean nappies, baby milk etc NOT luxury items. Afterall the banks always spout on about not ignoring a problem but speaking to them immediately.

I continued to try and get the bank (though I had to use the customer call centre number) to sit down (metaphorically) and work out a plan with me. Had the bank actually offered me a repayment plan when I was only £100 od, then I would have been back in the black within a couple of months. But it didn't.

The extremely rude and unhelpful, robotic staff that manned the so called Customer Services line were about as flexible as a house brick and before you start on about rude customers, I am old school and have been brought up to remain calm, polite and considerate at all times. I always remember that the staff only follow the rules NOT make them and, being calm and friendly yeilds much better results in the long term. Anyway the call centre staff were a most unpleasant branch and this was before Martin Lewis began his campaign.

Whatever you may think you know about taking responsibility and managing your money effectively, the truth is that many people find circumstance takes a hand in things. In my case my husbands employer was bought out suddenly and the effect on our income was dramatic in a bad way. Added to that the fact that I was on Maternity Leave and the overall result was a drop in our monthly income of around £500. That's £500 we suddenly didn't have!

So before you become all high and mighty Miss Perfectworld, remember that things are rarely as a cut and dried as you seem to think they are. At 21 I'm assuming you don't actually have any real world responsibilities such as children and the associated expenses they bring with them. The hard cold facts are that children need feeding, clothes and shoes and it isn't simply a case of 'if you haven't got the money, don't spend it'. Its basic expenses and I asked for help and I didn't get it.

Anyway back to my story. It wasn't until I had run up and overdraft in excess of £700 (most of which was charges) that my bank SUDDENLY wanted to talk to me about a manageable repayment plan. Suddenly, I could pay some of my bills, with the banks blessing and repay them an interest free amount for an initial 6mths. Why wasn't I offered this at the start when I begged them to help? Because they wanted to make money out of me and this was the way they chose to do it.

To add insult to injury, they added more charges to the overdrawn amount to pay for the 'special' arrangement and after 6mths of paying on time they insisted I take out an extortionate loan. So they've made money out of my hardship in every which way.

So BG. What's your explaination for this? This certainly isn't the work of an organisation and its' staff that has the interests of its' customer at heart. It's the work of an organisation who deosn't give a damn and is only interested in making money.

I suggest that, until you have actually lived a little, gained some real world experience and some understanding of the problems most people with 'real world' mortgages and bills have to face, that you keep your company line opinion to yourself and show a little empathy.

reetnproper

Sorry Smasher but my blood was boiling.