Automatic gearbox and regular use of neutral

Advocado

itsmeagain said:

Advocado said:

itsmeagain said:

It should not cause any damage to your gearbox but will wear your brakes out quicker (should you need them), and arguably dangerously delay your emergency use of accelerator (if required).

Interesting post - thanks for the info.  It's a diesel van.

I only put it into N when I know I won't need the brakes.  So I coast for a while if there's a long downward gradient and then into D again once the speed has dropped lower than I want.

Good to know it's not damaging anything.

Van - yes - aerodynamics of a bus!
That makes sense - you will get an improvement, I don't believe the size of the improvement that you claim though, don't believe you wouldn't increase speed in N on steep hills (would agree on gentle to moderate), some models (such as 2.0 DSG Superb) do this automatically for you.

So are you going to go the whole hog, switch the ign off and back on again whilst coasting?

I am a class 1 advanced and ROSPA gold driver and have never had an accident whilst practicing this - seen loads though!

No (I'd lose power steering etc?), just literally coast with the engine idling.

neilmcl

Advocado said:

itsmeagain said:

Advocado said:

itsmeagain said:

It should not cause any damage to your gearbox but will wear your brakes out quicker (should you need them), and arguably dangerously delay your emergency use of accelerator (if required).

Interesting post - thanks for the info.  It's a diesel van.

I only put it into N when I know I won't need the brakes.  So I coast for a while if there's a long downward gradient and then into D again once the speed has dropped lower than I want.

Good to know it's not damaging anything.

Van - yes - aerodynamics of a bus!
That makes sense - you will get an improvement, I don't believe the size of the improvement that you claim though, don't believe you wouldn't increase speed in N on steep hills (would agree on gentle to moderate), some models (such as 2.0 DSG Superb) do this automatically for you.

So are you going to go the whole hog, switch the ign off and back on again whilst coasting?

I am a class 1 advanced and ROSPA gold driver and have never had an accident whilst practicing this - seen loads though!

No (I'd lose power steering etc?), just literally coast with the engine idling.

And therefore burning fuel.

Advocado

neilmcl said:

Advocado said:

neilmcl said:

Advocado said:

itsmeagain said:

It should not cause any damage to your gearbox but will wear your brakes out quicker (should you need them), and arguably dangerously delay your emergency use of accelerator (if required).

Interesting post - thanks for the info.  It's a diesel van.

I only put it into N when I know I won't need the brakes.  So I coast for a while if there's a long downward gradient and then into D again once the speed has dropped lower than I want.

Good to know it's not damaging anything.

Don't take offence but that only tells me how much of a poor driver you are, and goes back to my earlier point of how dangerous coasting can be. You should ALWAYS be in a position to need your brakes.

Massively disagree. 

You should drive in a manner that means you don't need your brakes by keeping your distance, looking far ahead, keeping a steady speed, pre-empting other drivers' actions etc.

You should always be in a position to expect the unexpected.

And I am.  Coasting doesn't affect my ability to press the brake.

You said "You should ALWAYS be in a position to need your brakes".  I don't know what that means - unless you're suggesting you should always tailgate.

Advocado

Keep_pedalling said:

Advocado said:

itsmeagain said:

It should not cause any damage to your gearbox but will wear your brakes out quicker (should you need them), and arguably dangerously delay your emergency use of accelerator (if required).

Interesting post - thanks for the info.  It's a diesel van.

I only put it into N when I know I won't need the brakes.  So I coast for a while if there's a long downward gradient and then into D again once the speed has dropped lower than I want.

Good to know it's not damaging anything.

So you know you will never have to break unexpectedly because a pedestrian walks out in front of you or another vehicle or bike pulls into your path?

How does coasting prevent me from braking unexpectedly?

BOWFER

Advocado said:

BOWFER said:

So when using neutral, you're not coming to a stop before putting it back into D?
If you're putting it from neutral back into 'D' at any speed, the gearbox simply wasn't designed for this at all and entirely at your own risk.

Correct.  D to N to D multiple times at various speeds. 

The DSG's whole 'thing' is that it's programmed to predict what will happen next.
So if you're in third and accelerating it predicts you're going to want fourth next and already has fourth pre-selected.
When the engine is idling in neutral, it's going to think you want first or reverse next, it's not going to expect you to suddenly need second/third/fourth or whatever (depending what speed you're doing).
Like I said, not designed to do this at all and perhaps only luck it's not gone bang already.
It's like asking if my iphone is OK to be repeatedly dropped just because I've been getting away with it for years.

neilmcl

Advocado said:

neilmcl said:

Advocado said:

neilmcl said:

Advocado said:

itsmeagain said:

It should not cause any damage to your gearbox but will wear your brakes out quicker (should you need them), and arguably dangerously delay your emergency use of accelerator (if required).

Interesting post - thanks for the info.  It's a diesel van.

I only put it into N when I know I won't need the brakes.  So I coast for a while if there's a long downward gradient and then into D again once the speed has dropped lower than I want.

Good to know it's not damaging anything.

Don't take offence but that only tells me how much of a poor driver you are, and goes back to my earlier point of how dangerous coasting can be. You should ALWAYS be in a position to need your brakes.

Massively disagree. 

You should drive in a manner that means you don't need your brakes by keeping your distance, looking far ahead, keeping a steady speed, pre-empting other drivers' actions etc.

You should always be in a position to expect the unexpected.

And I am.  Coasting doesn't affect my ability to press the brake.

You said "You should ALWAYS be in a position to need your brakes".  I don't know what that means - unless you're suggesting you should always tailgate.

But it does diminish your ability to stop safely.

itsmeagain

Your brakes will work at idle without the engine over-running. They will actually work after the engine has switched off due to the reservoir (well once anyway)!

itsmeagain

BOWFER said:

Advocado said:

BOWFER said:

So when using neutral, you're not coming to a stop before putting it back into D?
If you're putting it from neutral back into 'D' at any speed, the gearbox simply wasn't designed for this at all and entirely at your own risk.

Correct.  D to N to D multiple times at various speeds. 

The DSG's whole 'thing' is that it's programmed to predict what will happen next.
So if you're in third and accelerating it predicts you're going to want fourth next and already has fourth pre-selected.
When the engine is idling in neutral, it's going to think you want first or reverse next, it's not going to expect you to suddenly need second/third/fourth or whatever (depending what speed you're doing).
Like I said, not designed to do this at all and perhaps only luck it's not gone bang already.
It's like asking if my iphone is OK to be repeatedly dropped just because I've been getting away with it for years.

Having developed the simulink/matlab models for this, there is no 'guessing' what the customer is going to attempt next. There's different scheduling loops in the software ranging from 1ms to 1000ms interrupts and many of the engine control functions are synchronous.

It's ludicrous to say that a car travelling forwards down a hill in N is going to think that you want reverse next. Even if reverse selection was attempted, an interlock would inhibit it. You are either playing the OP up or not competent at this subject.

BOWFER

itsmeagain said:

BOWFER said:

Advocado said:

BOWFER said:

So when using neutral, you're not coming to a stop before putting it back into D?
If you're putting it from neutral back into 'D' at any speed, the gearbox simply wasn't designed for this at all and entirely at your own risk.

Correct.  D to N to D multiple times at various speeds. 

The DSG's whole 'thing' is that it's programmed to predict what will happen next.
So if you're in third and accelerating it predicts you're going to want fourth next and already has fourth pre-selected.
When the engine is idling in neutral, it's going to think you want first or reverse next, it's not going to expect you to suddenly need second/third/fourth or whatever (depending what speed you're doing).
Like I said, not designed to do this at all and perhaps only luck it's not gone bang already.
It's like asking if my iphone is OK to be repeatedly dropped just because I've been getting away with it for years.

Having developed that simulink/matlab models for this, there is no 'guessing' what the customer is going to attempt next. There's different scheduling loops in the software ranging from 1ms to 1000ms interrupts and many of the engine control functions are synchronous.

I didn't use the word 'guess'
The next gear is pre-selected.

Mark_in_Kent

Please don't coast, it reduces driver control (see Highway code extract below).

If your foot isn't pressing the accelerator pedal then you're not putting more fuel through the engine. I've a DSG VW Passatt, the DSG is a complex thing and meant to be driven simply as an automatic, playing with it in neutral (whilst driving) is not what it was designed to do.

BTW there is a costing setting on the settings/driver convenience menu, have you tried changing that?

Coasting in Neutral Gear

Rule 122: Coasting is a term describing a vehicle when it travels in neutral gear. You can also achieve coasting by depressing the clutch pedal. Coasting in a car can reduce driver control because:

• Normal engine braking is usually eliminated.
• The vehicle speed will increase quickly downhill.
• An increased use of the footbrake can reduce its effectiveness.
• Coasting can affect the steering response (particularly on corners).
• It may be difficult to select the appropriate gear when required.