A company refuses to refund us £545 after having sent the goods back

Jenni_D

lucinka77 said:

lucinka77 said:

Jenni_D said:

If a seller wishes to bind a distance customer to T&Cs then they must provide those T&Cs in a durable means before the consumer becomes bound by them. As they have not provided any T&Cs then you're not liable for the returns cost (even for a "bespoke" item) and must be given a full refund.

How did you pay? (Debit or Credit card?)

Thank you. We paid by debit card on the phone. The seller apparently has their T&Cs on their website, (he keeps pointing us that direction, saying we should have read them) but as we discussed everything over the phone, it didn't occur to us we should be reading them. If the sales team mentioned anything about it, of course we would, but we fully trusted the team on teh phone. 
I've just had a look at their T&C's at the bottom of theior webiste, and it says:
"...As all our products are made to order, no refunds will be given for cancelled orders after the 14 day cooling off period. All requests for a refund must be made in writing within 14 days of placing the order...." (so this gave me some hope)
But also - in bold: "...Please be aware that bespoke products are non-refundable...." So the extra door probably makes it into a bespoke item....we're furious that this has NOT been pointed to us by the sales team. The woman actually said it should be returnable. 

PS Jenni, do you mean that the link at the bottom of their page might NOT count as 'durable means'? If that was so, we would probably stand a chance, wouldn't we. 

Anything online is NOT durable means as it is prone to change at any time. Durable means is physically delivered on paper, or sent as the content of an email; a link in an email to a website is also NOT durable means.

As such you have not had T&Cs presented to you, thus you cannot be bound by them. I suggest you contact your card provider to request a chargeback ... I'm not sure exactly what the chargeback code/reason would be though (perhaps @born_again may be able to enlighten us?)

Westin

Can you not partly dismantle (looks panel built) to get through the gate, then just put together again in the desired location? Not ideal but would surely get over this situation.

born_again

@Manxman_in_exile

Op seems to be avoiding answering the question on which one it was. But given the website states sizes, why ring?

Even if on a pallet, one would expect the delivery guys to take it off to make life easier to carry. Unless it is balsa wood and very flimsy.

lucinka77

Westin said:

Can you not partly dismantle (looks panel built) to get through the gate, then just put together again in the desired location? Not ideal but would surely get over this situation.

Thank you. We've already suggested this to the company, but they claim that they're not obliged to send us a replacement...

lucinka77

Jenni_D said:

lucinka77 said:

lucinka77 said:

Jenni_D said:

If a seller wishes to bind a distance customer to T&Cs then they must provide those T&Cs in a durable means before the consumer becomes bound by them. As they have not provided any T&Cs then you're not liable for the returns cost (even for a "bespoke" item) and must be given a full refund.

How did you pay? (Debit or Credit card?)

Thank you. We paid by debit card on the phone. The seller apparently has their T&Cs on their website, (he keeps pointing us that direction, saying we should have read them) but as we discussed everything over the phone, it didn't occur to us we should be reading them. If the sales team mentioned anything about it, of course we would, but we fully trusted the team on teh phone. 
I've just had a look at their T&C's at the bottom of theior webiste, and it says:
"...As all our products are made to order, no refunds will be given for cancelled orders after the 14 day cooling off period. All requests for a refund must be made in writing within 14 days of placing the order...." (so this gave me some hope)
But also - in bold: "...Please be aware that bespoke products are non-refundable...." So the extra door probably makes it into a bespoke item....we're furious that this has NOT been pointed to us by the sales team. The woman actually said it should be returnable. 

PS Jenni, do you mean that the link at the bottom of their page might NOT count as 'durable means'? If that was so, we would probably stand a chance, wouldn't we. 

Anything online is NOT durable means as it is prone to change at any time. Durable means is physically delivered on paper, or sent as the content of an email; a link in an email to a website is also NOT durable means.

As such you have not had T&Cs presented to you, thus you cannot be bound by them. I suggest you contact your card provider to request a chargeback ... I'm not sure exactly what the chargeback code/reason would be though (perhaps @born_again may be able to enlighten us?)

Thanks for clarifying the T&C - 'durable means' question! Does this law apply to the UK as well? If it did, then we might have a chance at a court. However, we'd much prefer to avoid this route and have suggested to the company to have the cabin redelivered flat packed. So far, they are not returning our calls, and in their last email from a few weeks ago they said they're not obliged to send us a replacement. 

lucinka77

born_again said:

@Manxman_in_exile

Op seems to be avoiding answering the question on which one it was. But given the website states sizes, why ring?

Even if on a pallet, one would expect the delivery guys to take it off to make life easier to carry. Unless it is balsa wood and very flimsy.

We originally liked the Large size and called them to discuss the delivery - to make sure we'd have help to get it through the neighbours gate. (In fact, she has two gates, one iron-wrought to enter her small garden, and then the wooden one that leads to our garden) They are about 84 cm wide. The Large Albany Dog Cabin would theoretically fit through that, as the width is less than 80 cm.

However, the sales team convinced us to go for the XL, (wider than the gates) as it's apparently more suitable for a German Shepherd, But when the XL cabin arrived, we could see it was far too large for our dog - we don't need a huge cabin, in fact, a smaller one would be better as it would generate more heat once he was in it.

We also rang them to discuss the extra door. The sales team said it would be fine, we'd only pay £40 extra. They did not say anything about their T&C (that if we ordered an extra feature like this that it would not be refundable). 

The XL cabin was mechanically suspended from the lorry on a heavy-duty metal trolley. The delivery document stated 400kg...even if it was wrong, we all could see that this item would not be possible to be lifted by even several men. The driver confirmed this as well...

Jenni_D

lucinka77 said:

Jenni_D said:

lucinka77 said:

lucinka77 said:

Jenni_D said:

If a seller wishes to bind a distance customer to T&Cs then they must provide those T&Cs in a durable means before the consumer becomes bound by them. As they have not provided any T&Cs then you're not liable for the returns cost (even for a "bespoke" item) and must be given a full refund.

How did you pay? (Debit or Credit card?)

Thank you. We paid by debit card on the phone. The seller apparently has their T&Cs on their website, (he keeps pointing us that direction, saying we should have read them) but as we discussed everything over the phone, it didn't occur to us we should be reading them. If the sales team mentioned anything about it, of course we would, but we fully trusted the team on teh phone. 
I've just had a look at their T&C's at the bottom of theior webiste, and it says:
"...As all our products are made to order, no refunds will be given for cancelled orders after the 14 day cooling off period. All requests for a refund must be made in writing within 14 days of placing the order...." (so this gave me some hope)
But also - in bold: "...Please be aware that bespoke products are non-refundable...." So the extra door probably makes it into a bespoke item....we're furious that this has NOT been pointed to us by the sales team. The woman actually said it should be returnable. 

PS Jenni, do you mean that the link at the bottom of their page might NOT count as 'durable means'? If that was so, we would probably stand a chance, wouldn't we. 

Anything online is NOT durable means as it is prone to change at any time. Durable means is physically delivered on paper, or sent as the content of an email; a link in an email to a website is also NOT durable means.

As such you have not had T&Cs presented to you, thus you cannot be bound by them. I suggest you contact your card provider to request a chargeback ... I'm not sure exactly what the chargeback code/reason would be though (perhaps @born_again may be able to enlighten us?)

Thanks for clarifying the T&C - 'durable means' question! Does this law apply to the UK as well? If it did, then we might have a chance at a court. However, we'd much prefer to avoid this route and have suggested to the company to have the cabin redelivered flat packed. So far, they are not returning our calls, and in their last email from a few weeks ago they said they're not obliged to send us a replacement. 

Erm ... it is UK Law I am referring to.  

Of course they're not obliged to send you a replacement. Equally they're obliged to refund you in full as they didn't provide any T&Cs via durable means, so you can't be bound by any term that is introduced post-contract.  

Aylesbury_Duck

If they're not budging, send them a letter before action and take your chance in small claims court.

nyermen

Just to be clear, re-delivery aside, having refused delivery (because delivery wasn't possible on the basis of promises made that weren't kept), they're now saying they dont have to provide the item or a refund?  That defense won't get far in court.

nyermen

Of course they're not obliged to send you a replacement. Equally they're obliged to refund you in full as they didn't provide any T&Cs via durable means, so you can't be bound by any term that is introduced post-contract.  

I'd have thought though, even if they had provided, that any T&C stating that if you refuse delivery, we get to keep all your money as well as the item, wouldn't be enforceable either?

(Or have I totally misread what the company is claiming).