A company refuses to refund us £545 after having sent the goods back

Manxman_in_exile

Aylesbury_Duck said:

lucinka77 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Putting rights to one side, and assuming you still need the kennel, is there a practical solution, e.g. temporarily removing your neighbour's fence (with their agreement, of course) to widen the opening, or are we talking about brick walls?

Thank you. The fence is wooden, but not easily removable. I think it would be possible to have a slightly smaller kennel, size Large, (instead of XL) with 736mm width that should pass through the 890mm gate. Our dog is a German Shepherd, pretty large, so we eventually opted for the XL size.

But now I regret we did not go for our original plan, the Large size. When we discussed this with the sales team, they told us that the builders say German Shepherd should definitely have an XL size, so we said yes to it, and I think that was a mistake.

 I don't think they would send us another one now, as they said they're not obliged to send us a replacement (because we refused delivery of an item marked by the driver as 'in perfect condition' - but obviously  not in a condition to be received by us..!)

...  It seems backward to order a kennel of a size to fit a gate rather than the size that your dog needs.

But not if the only way to get it on your property is through the gate!

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Why can't the fence and gate be removed to widen the opening, or is it a brick wall?

Aylesbury_Duck said:

lucinka77 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Putting rights to one side, and assuming you still need the kennel, is there a practical solution, e.g. temporarily removing your neighbour's fence (with their agreement, of course) to widen the opening, or are we talking about brick walls?

Thank you. The fence is wooden, but not easily removable. I think it would be possible to have a slightly smaller kennel, size Large, (instead of XL) with 736mm width that should pass through the 890mm gate. Our dog is a German Shepherd, pretty large, so we eventually opted for the XL size.

But now I regret we did not go for our original plan, the Large size. When we discussed this with the sales team, they told us that the builders say German Shepherd should definitely have an XL size, so we said yes to it, and I think that was a mistake.

 I don't think they would send us another one now, as they said they're not obliged to send us a replacement (because we refused delivery of an item marked by the driver as 'in perfect condition' - but obviously  not in a condition to be received by us..!)

I think it comes down to this: do you want the kennel you ordered, or not?  If you do, it seems there's a practical way to get it delivered, by removing the fence temporarily, assuming your neighbour consents...

I know what you mean but it depends a lot on the goodwill of the neighbour and whether they're going to be happy having a 400kg - if it does weigh that much - dog kennel dragged or tractored or trailed across their lawn and flower beds etc.

I know this will sound terrible but if my neighbour asked me to temporarily remove our fences so they could get a 400kg dog kennel on their property, I think I might be inclined to suggest that they insert it elsewhere...  And who would pay for it?  (Fence removal and reinstatement repair to lawn and flower beds etc - not the insertion).

Aylesbury_Duck

Manxman_in_exile said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

lucinka77 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Putting rights to one side, and assuming you still need the kennel, is there a practical solution, e.g. temporarily removing your neighbour's fence (with their agreement, of course) to widen the opening, or are we talking about brick walls?

Thank you. The fence is wooden, but not easily removable. I think it would be possible to have a slightly smaller kennel, size Large, (instead of XL) with 736mm width that should pass through the 890mm gate. Our dog is a German Shepherd, pretty large, so we eventually opted for the XL size.

But now I regret we did not go for our original plan, the Large size. When we discussed this with the sales team, they told us that the builders say German Shepherd should definitely have an XL size, so we said yes to it, and I think that was a mistake.

 I don't think they would send us another one now, as they said they're not obliged to send us a replacement (because we refused delivery of an item marked by the driver as 'in perfect condition' - but obviously  not in a condition to be received by us..!)

...  It seems backward to order a kennel of a size to fit a gate rather than the size that your dog needs.

But not if the only way to get it on your property is through the gate!

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Why can't the fence and gate be removed to widen the opening, or is it a brick wall?

Aylesbury_Duck said:

lucinka77 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Putting rights to one side, and assuming you still need the kennel, is there a practical solution, e.g. temporarily removing your neighbour's fence (with their agreement, of course) to widen the opening, or are we talking about brick walls?

Thank you. The fence is wooden, but not easily removable. I think it would be possible to have a slightly smaller kennel, size Large, (instead of XL) with 736mm width that should pass through the 890mm gate. Our dog is a German Shepherd, pretty large, so we eventually opted for the XL size.

But now I regret we did not go for our original plan, the Large size. When we discussed this with the sales team, they told us that the builders say German Shepherd should definitely have an XL size, so we said yes to it, and I think that was a mistake.

 I don't think they would send us another one now, as they said they're not obliged to send us a replacement (because we refused delivery of an item marked by the driver as 'in perfect condition' - but obviously  not in a condition to be received by us..!)

I think it comes down to this: do you want the kennel you ordered, or not?  If you do, it seems there's a practical way to get it delivered, by removing the fence temporarily, assuming your neighbour consents...

I know what you mean but it depends a lot on the goodwill of the neighbour and whether they're going to be happy having a 400kg - if it does weigh that much - dog kennel dragged or tractored or trailed across their lawn and flower beds etc.

I know this will sound terrible but if my neighbour asked me to temporarily remove our fences so they could get a 400kg dog kennel on their property, I think I might be inclined to suggest that they insert it elsewhere...  And who would pay for it?  (Fence removal and reinstatement repair to lawn and flower beds etc - not the insertion).

You're a heartless man  .

I think you're right on the weight probably being somewhere between 40kg and 400kg, and if it is 400kg, they would have needed some pretty hefty kit to load it on the van several feet off the ground(?), so why wasn't that kit on the van to get it off and into place?  I suppose the fence might be 6 feet tall and beyond the reach of any lifting kit, but we're guessing in the absence of information.

From what OP says, fence removal is an option, so it comes down to whether they have an amenable neighbour and are prepared to wear the costs of removal and reinstatement.  Otherwise, it's back to the drawing board and compromising on the size of the kennel, making it suit the gate width rather than the size they want for their dog.

Jenni_D

I recall that the OP confirmed that nothing had been sent to them - at all.

Sandtree

Jenni_D said:

I recall that the OP confirmed that nothing had been sent to them - at all.

Other than 400kg of dog house - given the price and the cost of haulage is dirt cheap and probably worth more in scrap than the OP paid... we sold some pre-used timber and the rate was well over the £1.40/kg the OP appears to have paid (if weight is right)

Ok the photo on the website isnt with the insulation but unless they're using lead the weight is going to be much closer to 40kg than 400kg.  We've a brick & steel built structure about the same dimensions and its 120kg (though comes into two pieces for transport)

Jenni_D

I felt the delivery itself was so obvious that it didn't need saying.

Sandtree

Jenni_D said:

I felt the delivery itself was so obvious that it didn't need saying.

Just thought 400kg of dog house was too big a thing to go without saying

lucinka77

Jenni_D said:

If a seller wishes to bind a distance customer to T&Cs then they must provide those T&Cs in a durable means before the consumer becomes bound by them. As they have not provided any T&Cs then you're not liable for the returns cost (even for a "bespoke" item) and must be given a full refund.

How did you pay? (Debit or Credit card?)

Thank you. We paid by debit card on the phone. The seller apparently has their T&Cs on their website, (he keeps pointing us that direction, saying we should have read them) but as we discussed everything over the phone, it didn't occur to us we should be reading them. If the sales team mentioned anything about it, of course we would, but we fully trusted the team on teh phone. 
I've just had a look at their T&C's at the bottom of theior webiste, and it says:
"...As all our products are made to order, no refunds will be given for cancelled orders after the 14 day cooling off period. All requests for a refund must be made in writing within 14 days of placing the order...." (so this gave me some hope)
But also - in bold: "...Please be aware that bespoke products are non-refundable...." So the extra door probably makes it into a bespoke item....we're furious that this has NOT been pointed to us by the sales team. The woman actually said it should be returnable. 

lucinka77

Jenni_D said:

Did they send you anything by email before attempting to deliver?

No, they didn't. Apart from one email which said that it would be delivered Monday am, but we waited the whole day and nothing arrived. We waited in vain at least three times. 

lucinka77

lucinka77 said:

Jenni_D said:

If a seller wishes to bind a distance customer to T&Cs then they must provide those T&Cs in a durable means before the consumer becomes bound by them. As they have not provided any T&Cs then you're not liable for the returns cost (even for a "bespoke" item) and must be given a full refund.

How did you pay? (Debit or Credit card?)

Thank you. We paid by debit card on the phone. The seller apparently has their T&Cs on their website, (he keeps pointing us that direction, saying we should have read them) but as we discussed everything over the phone, it didn't occur to us we should be reading them. If the sales team mentioned anything about it, of course we would, but we fully trusted the team on teh phone. 
I've just had a look at their T&C's at the bottom of theior webiste, and it says:
"...As all our products are made to order, no refunds will be given for cancelled orders after the 14 day cooling off period. All requests for a refund must be made in writing within 14 days of placing the order...." (so this gave me some hope)
But also - in bold: "...Please be aware that bespoke products are non-refundable...." So the extra door probably makes it into a bespoke item....we're furious that this has NOT been pointed to us by the sales team. The woman actually said it should be returnable. 

PS Jenni, do you mean that the link at the bottom of their page might NOT count as 'durable means'? If that was so, we would probably stand a chance, wouldn't we. 

Manxman_in_exile

born_again said:

So this is a The Albany Dog Cabin then?
Looks very solid & all sizes are on the website once you pick your size.

Still would not seem to be 62 stone in real weight...

Assuming that's it - and I suspect it probably is - it isn't exactly a dog "kennel", is it?

The Albany Dog Cabin (cherryacresanimalhousing.co.uk)

Assuming the timber used is about 5cm thick and it simply forms a shell, wouldn't a VERY approximate calculation indicate that about 170,000cm^3 of timber was required, which would roughly equate to about 34m of 5cm x 10 cm?  (And looking at the photos, that may not be very far out?).

I don't know what a 1m length of 5cm x 10cm weighs (pine, oak, balsa, ebony?) but if the cabin weighs 400kg, then each metre would have to weigh about 8.5kg, wouldn't it?

8.5kg for just a one metre length of 5cm x 10cm timber sounds rather heavy to me (unless the dog is getting a lot of new built-in furniture too) but I don't think that dog cabin is going to weigh as little as 40 kg either.  I wouldn't be surprised if it weighed anywhere between 80kg and 120kg at least - quite possibly more.  I don't think 400kg is anywhere near possible though.

[Edit:  Ah.  Just realised from the T&Cs that the "kennel" comes on a pallett and I wouldn't be surprised if it were crated up as well.  I can see the weight creeping up and up... ]