First registration of title if deeds are lost or destroyed

Scootypops

My wife has inherited her late mother's house, which was owned by her mother and father since 1975 (father dies around 12 years ago, so mother solely owned it.

We have an issue with the sale of the house in that the deeds are nowhere to be found and the house isn't on the land registry to get the title copies, I suppose it's not that uncommon an issue when a house was bought well before 1991 and hasn't changed hands since, with the physical deeds having been lost.

All we have is some original documents that the original conveyancing solicitors outline their fees and services in an invoice due for completion. It states the lender on it too. From those documents, we've been in touch with both the solicitor and lender to ask if they have the deeds (they don't), but the lender did email a statement that the mortgage was redeemed in 1996. The mortgage was paid off at that time, and where the deeds went after that is a mystery. We also contacted the solicitors that drew up the will my wife's mother made to leave the estate (inc house) to her.

The solicitors being used for conveyancing were recommended by the selling estate agent (we have agreed a sale) and were pretty reasonable with fixed pricing.

Without the deeds, and the title unregistered, it seems like our only option is to apply for "First registration of title if deeds are lost or destroyed".

Our solicitors are advising us that this is the way to go, and it seems logical to do so, but the conveyancing solicitors want £1000+VAT to go this way.

It does seem that this very round figure has been pulled out of thin air, considering the conveyancing fees were under £800 and the process appears to comprise the completion of 3 forms (the application, a list of supporting documents, and a statement of truth) that look to be a few hours work tops for someone who knows what they're doing (I have filled out 2 of the 3 forms 90%, with a few guidance queries to double check). The official application fee is £140, not sure if our £1000+VAT includes that or not.

Has anyone gone through this, and are our solicitors just trying to screw us with this fee that looks to be disproportionate?

canaldumidi

Well you could do the 1st registration yourself. You've clearly investigated the process, so.... fill in the forms and send the the LR?

Practice guide 2: first registration of title if deeds are lost or destroyed

Scootypops

canaldumidi said:

Well you could do the 1st registration yourself. You've clearly investigated the process, so.... fill in the forms and send the the LR?

There doesn't honestly seem a hell of a lot to it after I read teh practice guides last night, just wondering if I was missing something as to why someone who was just an ordinary conveyancing solicitor would be charging effectively £400 per hour to do it.

As long as you can demonstrate that you've exhausted every line of enquiry to locate the deeds (which I think I have), I don't think there's much scope for comeback from them.

After speaking to a solicitor today, representing the old firm that did the conveyancing way back in 1975 to ask them to send me an email confirming they don't have the deeds (demonstrable proof of enquiry, I also have an email from the will writing solicitor, the mortgage company and the other arm of the original solicitors that split away since to their own firm), we had a quick chat about it and she was astounded that it wasn't part of the conveyancing pack, and even if considered an extra, couldn't justify charging more than £400 for the work. Confirmation to me that the other firm are taking the mick.

She encouraged me to do it myself. I'd have considered asking her to do it for £400, but her firm don't do residential property work any more.

GoogleMeNow

OP, have a read of this article.  

https://www.pardoes.co.uk/blog/first-registration-and-lost-or-destroyed-deeds-all-hope-is-not-lost-or-destroyed

canaldumidi

Scootypops said:

canaldumidi said:

Well you could do the 1st registration yourself. You've clearly investigated the process, so.... fill in the forms and send the the LR?

....... if considered an extra, couldn't justify charging more than £400 for the work. Confirmation to me that the other firm are taking the mick.

You need to bear in mind that in completing the relevant application to send to the Land Regisry, the solicitor will have to spend some considerable time (at their hourly rate) getting the relevant information from you. Some twoing and froing, either face to face, by email or letter or phone, establishing the history, drafting and confirming the Statements of truth etc.

Now, in the end, most if not all of this information will come from you, so whether you provide it to the solicitor to document, or you complete the documents yourself, is up to you......

p00hsticks

Could it be that the price the solicitor is quoting  includes you paying for some sort of indemnity insurance for the buyer ? In the circumstances I think if I was the buyer (and I decided not to walk away completely) I'd be wanting some sort of insurance to cover the fact that I wouldn't be getting absolute title to the property for a number of years.

Thrugelmir

When was your parents mortgage settled? 

TBG01

It does seem that this very round figure has been pulled out of thin air, considering the conveyancing fees were under £800 and the process appears to comprise the completion of 3 forms 

Do it yourself then if you really think it's that straight forward. 

First registrations are anything but straight forward. The fact it can take the Land Registry well over a year to complete is testament to that.

desthemoaner

We're currently going through the process of buying a property which, 2 months into the purchase, turned out to be unregistered. The deeds have also been lost. The seller's solicitor applied for adverse possession and on the basis of evidence given by the deceased occupier's executrix, the property has been registered in her name under possessory title.

The vendor's solicitor expedited the matter and its taken about three weeks in total for the register to be updated with the title and tenure. It would take a private citizen without access to expedition much longer than that. 

Scootypops

Thrugelmir said:

When was your parents mortgage settled? 

1996. The mortgage was taken out with the local council in 1975. We have an email from the council to confirm this and that they do not have the deeds. Every other house in the street is registered and the neighbours boundaries look correct,

Scootypops

desthemoaner said:

We're currently going through the process of buying a property which, 2 months into the purchase, turned out to be unregistered. The deeds have also been lost. The seller's solicitor applied for adverse possession and on the basis of evidence given by the deceased occupier's executrix, the property has been registered in her name under possessory title.

The vendor's solicitor expedited the matter and its taken about three weeks in total for the register to be updated with the title and tenure. It would take a private citizen without access to expedition much longer than that. 

The solicitor I spoke to in making enquiries as to where the deeds might be did say that if you can demonstrate that the property is under offer, expedition is usually forthcoming, if it is not then it sits in the pile and waits.They shouldn't treat a private citizen any differently than a solicitor if the paperwork is right,