Parking Eye Ticket Scotland

Coupon-mad

You stand a 99% chance of winning if it went to court, as our win rate has been that high since 2016.  You have a winnable case.

But the easiest way to end this is by landowner complaint.

As for the reason for the BPA complaint, it's to try to get a fresh POPLA code but in the meantime really prioritise the easiest win of the landowner/retailer complaint.

Laki22

Coupon-mad said:

You stand a 99% chance of winning if it went to court, as our win rate has been that high since 2016.  You have a winnable case.

But the easiest way to end this is by landowner complaint.

As for the reason for the BPA complaint, it's to try to get a fresh POPLA code but in the meantime really prioritise the easiest win of the landowner/retailer complaint.

Thank you very much for your help. I will try locating and complaining to Landowner first. If that fails I will rather give them a hard time then just handing it over.

Redx

Laki22 said:

Redx said:

Laki22 said:

Redx said:

Unfair has no relevance , only the laws of the nation ,  contract law and the BPA CoP version 8 dated January 2020

Does that mean I have no recourse, that by entering I have accepted the contract? How can I accept if I don't read it first? Is a judge likly to just take a black or white view or is there some common sense applied as well? 

You did, but 15 minutes is way beyond any Grace period in most cases !  Ten minutes or less is the accepted normal , you rejected the contract but stayed too long.

As for Grace periods , feel free to download and read the BPA CoP , Clause 13 , Ditto with the IPC CoP too ( Clause 13 ) , ditto with any council car park or bay , ditto with the proposed government CoP arriving next summer !

Then show me any instance of where more than ten minutes grace is allowed !

The reason it took 15min is because I drive a large Motorhome and it took a while finding a suitable spot, then finding the sign and reading it, also I am not a native English speaker so it may have taken a bit longer to read the sign. PE quote that there where signs outside the car park on entry as well but how can I read a sign with that much writing and small print while driving?
Is that a reasonable argument if I have to go to court or is it just straight forward case that I have broken the terrm of the cotract.
I am trying to determine if I am in the wrong and should just pay up or do I at least stand half a chance if I go to court as I feel that it is unjust.

So that will form a part of your Defence if it goes to court , nothing to do with other places or what you think about grace periods in general , but in this case about those specifics which meant that you needed a longer grace period , decided to not accept the contract on offer ( the signage ) and leave in a timely manner !

But whilst it may seem a reasonable argument to you and us , it's the judge that you will have to convince ! In court

Laki22

Redx said:

You did, but 15 minutes is way beyond any Grace period in most cases !  Ten minutes or less is the accepted normal , you rejected the contract but stayed too long.

As for Grace periods , feel free to download and read the BPA CoP , Clause 13 , Ditto with the IPC CoP too ( Clause 13 ) , ditto with any council car park or bay , ditto with the proposed government CoP arriving next summer !

Then show me any instance of where more than ten minutes grace is allowed !

The reason it took 15min is because I drive a large Motorhome and it took a while finding a suitable spot, then finding the sign and reading it, also I am not a native English speaker so it may have taken a bit longer to read the sign. PE quote that there where signs outside the car park on entry as well but how can I read a sign with that much writing and small print while driving?
Is that a reasonable argument if I have to go to court or is it just straight forward case that I have broken the terrm of the cotract.
I am trying to determine if I am in the wrong and should just pay up or do I at least stand half a chance if I go to court as I feel that it is unjust.

So that will form a part of your Defence if it goes to court , nothing to do with other places or what you think about grace periods in general , but in this case about those specifics which meant that you needed a longer grace period , decided to not accept the contract on offer ( the signage ) and leave in a timely manner !

But whilst it may seem a reasonable argument to you and us , it's the judge that you will have to convince ! In court

Thanks for pointing me to  BPA CoP , Clause 13 , Ditto with the IPC CoP. It does say that a "minimum of 10 minutes" grace should be given, it does not define a maximum. In that respect 15 minutes doesn't seem unreasonable bearing in mind the size of vehicle I was driving and that it has takien me a bit longer to read and understand the signage (especialy if the car park and enttry/exit was busy). P E never mentioned a grace period (and that it has been exceeded) in their notice. Their claim is that I left without paying. I wasn't going to offer other places as a defence I just mentioned that. As you say, it is aquestion now wheater it will sound reasonable to a judge. I guess I will have to find out. As long as there is a 50/50 chance I am willing to take it. Will PE make a claim in a Scotish or English court?

D_P_Dance

Does that mean I have no recourse, that by entering I have accepted the contract? 

No, you must convince a judge that, because of the actions of the PPC, the contract is invalid.    It is all explained in the newbies.  Have you coomplained to your MP?      Read this

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/04/transcript-donated-approved-judgment.html 

1505grandad

"Thanks for pointing me to  BPA CoP , Clause 13........."  " It does say that a "minimum of 10 minutes" grace should be given, it does not define a maximum."

BPA CoP V8 states:-

"13 Consideration and Grace Periods

13.1 The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms

and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’

with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver

decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park,

you must provide them with a reasonable consideration

period to leave, before the driver can be bound by your

parking contract. The amount of time in these instances

will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a

minimum of 5 minutes."

Laki22

1505grandad said:

"Thanks for pointing me to  BPA CoP , Clause 13........."  " It does say that a "minimum of 10 minutes" grace should be given, it does not define a maximum."

BPA CoP V8 states:-

"13 Consideration and Grace Periods

13.1 The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms

and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’

with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver

decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park,

you must provide them with a reasonable consideration

period to leave, before the driver can be bound by your

parking contract. The amount of time in these instances

will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a

minimum of 5 minutes."

BRITISH PARKING ASSOCIATION CODE OF PRACTICE

 13.2 If the parking location is one where parking is normally permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable grace period in addition to the parking event before enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace period must be a minimum of 10 minutes
??

Laki22

The First quote is from BPA website and when I download the BPA Cop the wording is slightly different and no mention of minimum time period, just reasonable period.

grace periods 13.1   Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice

D_P_Dance

What is a reasonable period?  If it is pouring with rain and there is no shelter , zero seconds  surely.  If it is dusk and the sign is unlit, perhaps 10 -15 minutes.  But is it reasonable to waste that time reading a sign when all one  wants is a loaf of bread?  

Signs do not need to run into 700 words, as some do, and they need to be at eye level wih print at least 15mm tall..  

https://www.signazon.com/help-center/sign-letter-height-visibility-chart.aspx?__cf_chl_captcha_tk__=pmd_52RuJD8PXyvAgrAhtYtpZWMa8TAEo3_JGfC7vL0IyuE-1635852560-0-gqNtZGzNAyWjcnBszQiR

1505grandad

You are not using/quoting the BPA CoP relevant to the parking event  -  presumably this was after January 2020 and therefore V8 is applicable and 13.2 states:-

"13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not

apply where a parking event takes place. "