Internet fraud on my bank account

Ergates

AskAsk said:

Ergates said:

kaMelo said:
It may not be impossible but looks a very complicated way to commit fraud. I suppose playing and deliberately losing to someone is one way but are there any games on gambling sites that are one on one where you can choose your opponent?

Someone suggested that above - I don't know anything abhout online gambling - is that a thing you can do?   Wouldn#t it also be pretty easy to trace?

i mentioned earlier that the OP would find it difficult to convince anyone that he didn't do it as it doesn't make sense for someone to steal your money by paying the gambling sites as they are more likely to lose the money to the sites than win anything and even if they did win, the money would go back to the OP's account anyway so seems pretty dumb.

however, someone suggested the thieves could play with their accomplice on the gambling site in poker and lose intentionally then their accomplice (accomplices) would then draw the money out.

i don't know if you can choose your accomplice to play poker with on a gambling site but i guess you would be able to choose players to play with.  this would then be a more rational explanation of why the thieves would want to move the money this way rather than just pay the money directly into their own bank account or accounts.

the advantage of this method of stealing is that it would be difficult for the OP to convince anyone he didn't do it as people would not believe him and think he gambled the money and then regretted his actions as already mentioned in the thread.  this would avoid an investigation by the bank or the police.

tracing where the money went on a gambling site will also be more complicated and will take longer than tracing a direct payment from the OP's account to other bank accounts.

That's what I mean though - is that just a theoretical idea of how someone might get money out of a gambling site, or has someone who uses online gambling sites confirmed if this is possible?

middlingditch

It is completely possible to get money out of a gambling site back to a different account from the one that deposited it (if that makes sense). Perhaps not on the UK-regulated ones, but definitely the case on the more dodgy non-UK ones. All you need is to have several ways of depositing registered with them (say, 1 or 2 cards and a bank account and/or an e-wallet) and they are free and easy about you withdrawing money back wherever you please. So it is quite possible that someone could deposit £10k from a card and withdraw it to a different account. They may claim that they don't allow this for money laundering reasons but in practice some are very loose about it. 

The only sticking point is having used a card in someone else's name. Pretty much all gambling sites will see that you've done this and then stop you getting any money out. So a thief would need to set up the whole gambling account in the victim's name and then it makes it much harder to register *several* monetary instruments at that site all in the same name. So it's very difficult. But not impossible, as the dodgy non-UK-regulated sites in particular don't give a **** as long as someone is losing money to them. 

Of course, if the site is a crypto site then it's even murkier.

Having said all that, did I read earlier in the thread that the site in question is Virgin Games? They are UK regulated so the ability of the scammer to withdraw money back to an account in a different name is virtually nil. 

It is a stupid/illogical crime to commit for that reason, but before dismissing it as therefore impossible, let's remember the motivations of a compulsive gambler, which are to keep gambling no matter what, and without logic as to whether any genuine money can be made. So if this money was stolen and the thief is a gambler at that stage where they will do anything to feed their addiction, they are not necessarily thinking through the logic of how they would get any winnings. 

Just another angle on it.

MikeWhite

middlingditch said:

It is completely possible to get money out of a gambling site back to a different account from the one that deposited it

Indeed. And I guess in some circumstances it has to be? Deposit to a gambling site. Do a bank switch. Then what happens? I asked Betfair this and they said delete the old card, add the new one and you can withdraw to that...

born_again

Ergates said:

kaMelo said:
It may not be impossible but looks a very complicated way to commit fraud. I suppose playing and deliberately losing to someone is one way but are there any games on gambling sites that are one on one where you can choose your opponent?

Someone suggested that above - I don't know anything abhout online gambling - is that a thing you can do?   Wouldn#t it also be pretty easy to trace?

Yes.
Bank contacts gambling company requests user details as suspected fraud. They can then match up name & IP against login details.

Ergates

middlingditch said:

It is a stupid/illogical crime to commit for that reason, but before dismissing it as therefore impossible, let's remember the motivations of a compulsive gambler, which are to keep gambling no matter what, and without logic as to whether any genuine money can be made. So if this money was stolen and the thief is a gambler at that stage where they will do anything to feed their addiction, they are not necessarily thinking through the logic of how they would get any winnings. 

Just another angle on it.

In theory - but that doesn't really fit the MO with the hacked phone.  If such a crime actually took place then it was clearly well planned in advance and took considerable effort.

I can see why banks are skeptical of such things - occams razor points to the simpler explanation of someone blowing their savings, then making up a story to try to scrabble the money back.

Either way though - certainly if it was with a relatively reputable company - it should be possible to trace *where* the money went.  It's not like money just mysteriously vanishes when it's gambled - it goes to someone else.  I'm 100% sure that any and every (UK registered) gambling site will keep a track of their users gambling activities - it would be insane for them not to!