Energy news in general

michaels

jimexbox said:

michaels said:

jimexbox said:

Unless the government steps up, it could well fall when there is a huge spike in deaths over winter. 

The government's primary aim is to protect its citizens in times of crisis. We need a bailout like the banks received in 2008!

Thing is though, there is only going to be so much gas in Europe this winter and somehow that needs to be shared out amongst all those who normally buy it.

The govt (ie taxpayers) can subsidise UK consumers but other countries will be doing the same for their consumers so prices will just get pushed up higher and higher until someone has to blink and actually use less.  Can the UK afford to outbid Germany, France, Holland etc?

And of course it will also kill industry - how can our producers compete with those in the US and china who pay half or less for their energy?  And that is before we get the secondary effects that paying so much for energy means little money to spend in the shops and no entertainment.

Seems to be the ultimate sh*tstorm, Europe has put itself in a position where Russia have them by the b*lls and just need to decide how hard to squeeze.  And the funny bit is the less gas the Russians pump, the more money they bring in because the price rises even higher.

US fraking showed what control of the energy markets could do to economies when it almost broke Russia - the Russians learned from this, the Europeans clearly did not.  Probably the ultimate losers will be the Ukrainians, I wonder how long they will last when their supply of weapons and ammunition drys up once Europe decides its citizens heating comes before our solidarity with Ukraine?

UK gas supply is not under threat, we are not bidding for gas, contracts are in place, with less than 5% being supplied from Russia. Obviously the price is affected by market rates. Which is largely affected by Germany dependence on Russian gas and the subsequent depletion of those supply's.

So our government is perfectly positioned to subsidise the gas we'll already receive. If they don't expect thousands if not 10's of thousands to die over winter as a direct consequence. 

Sure, if we have bought forward for all we need over the winter.  However if we have not then there is nothing to stop Norway selling 'our' gas to Germany instead of us.  And even if suppliers have bought ahead for UK use, why not sell on to the Germans or whoever are willing to pay the most rather than to UK customers?

StartledJesus

@jimexbox And do you think the Government will be overly concerned by thousands of deaths? After all, they, and Boris in particular, are pretty sanguine about 200,000+ Covid related fatalities to date. Especially if they are Labour voters. 

QrizB

michaels said:

Sure, if we have bought forward for all we need over the winter.  However if we have not then there is nothing to stop Norway selling 'our' gas to Germany instead of us.  And even if suppliers have bought ahead fro UK use, why not sell on to the Germans or whoever are willing to pay the most rather than to UK customers?

I'm reminded of PPE at the start of the pandemic, when the UK Government found that the contracts it had with overseas suppliers weren't enforceable when the suppliers' national governments decided to ban exports.

StartledJesus

@michaels True. When push comes to shove, every nation will look after its own first, and the ‘common good’ goes out of the window, as evidenced by the meeting of EU countries yesterday, and the fudged agreement about energy rationing they arrived at. This is exacerbated when UK companies are owned by EU or other multinational corporations. Nations and nationals have long memories when it comes to real, or even imagined, slights, and what goes around comes around. The default position in the EU has been Germany having the whip hand, but this time it is Germany with the begging bowl, because Putin has stitched them up like a kipper. 

markin

           Fury as British Gas owner Centrica's half-year profits increase FIVE-FOLD to £1.34 BILLION 

"Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle raged at today's news, saying: 'This is not ''profits'' this is theft from the British people. Each penny of this should be returned with immediate effect.

'People will starve this winter, but the government's failed energy cap (which is as good as a chocolate tea pot) and energy company greed has led to this. This is not ''the global energy price''. 75% of our energy is domestically produced, the cost of production has not increased.'

Struggling consumers took the Twitter to slam the company for 'obscene greed', while Kate Osborne, MP for Jarrow, called for it to be nationalised. "

Mstty

I guess the takeaway from that is fair enough the profits were not made from.the domestic supply side of the business however due to the large profits they could.have offered some discounts and fixed deals for current British Gas customers as a way of sharing the profit.

Board and shareholders greed will be the main protagonists to this.

markin

Mstty said:

I guess the takeaway from that is fair enough the profits were not made from.the domestic supply side of the business however due to the large profits they could.have offered some discounts and fixed deals for current British Gas customers as a way of sharing the profit.

Board and shareholders greed will be the main protagonists to this.

If its from business users it still drives up inflation, If its from selling gas to Europe it drives up all gas prices.

savers_united

SJMALBA said:

savers_united said:

The point most seem to miss is that SC have only really been high (in my view where they always should have been) the last 12mths or so. Up until then millions were happy to come onto the Mse forums and boast about the tariff they have just switched to with zero or next to nothing standing charge, a silly low unit rate.

It's never a free lunch and this is now starting to catch up with us, the infrastructure is expensive to maintain and improve, it's aging yet people on here are still kicking off about the SC increases, even when a breakdown of the charge is explained. You cannot have it all, if you go cheap you pay twice (later), pay what actually reflects the costs to maintain / improve the net work and over the longer term you get a flatter SC.

It's just unfortunate it's taken an event like we see now for everyone to realise this, and for customers at a time where SOLR charges are already adding to a SC. 

You almost seem to be blaming consumers; it's the Westminster Government & regulator who put in place/oversaw the market, with an emphasis on maximum 'competition', based upon little/no entry requirements for suppliers - were consumers supposed to ignore that, particularly when Ofgem, Citizens Advice, MSE and all the rest kept hammering home the 'switch' message? And, in reality, how many actually switched, anyway? AFAIK, the so-called 'price cap' for SVT was brought in because 'insufficient' numbers were switching...

Not blaming anyone, those who switched have had low SC for years and best of luck to them. But I often see postings from the same people now kicking off about the SC, with comments along the lines how has my SC increased 300%.

Those people need to just think how lucky they have been to have such a low SC, now things have changed. Energy prices and availability of energy is not what it once was,. Margins are tighter but the same aging Infrastructure still needs to be maintained, those really cheap no SC suppliers people were using have failed and added to the SC calculation. 

So rather than finger pointing I am just making a point that SC are now at a level where we need to be to ensure all costs are covered. It's a new energy world we enter.

Those who call for a lower SC and higher unit rate are obviously low energy users, its a fact that some of those on the lowest incomes live in some of the most inefficient properties that are difficult to heat, a higher rate lower SC could mean they have far higher bills than those who are fincially better off and living in a modern highly efficient property, or could end up paying less or their second / third home by contributing very little to the network upkeep & obligations. 

Mstty

Blissfully unaware of impending doom.

Like the passengers of the Titanic.

I think somewhere there is a post where the figures for this winter came out at £4000 for the price cap by Jan 2023. Whoever that was you may be the closest on this board on the prediction sweepstake but sadly I've long spent the pound on two days standing charge.

I don't subscribe to any more help this winter. I think energy customers need a big shock, reduce their energy usage and then some target help next year for winter if gas futures are still this high or higher.

savers_united

With so many (the majority) of energy customers now on the SVT I am surprised that the Ofgem price cap keeps increasing. Surely the energy suppliers who are left, which in most cases are the big ones would have bought their energy earlier in the year when forward pricing was alot better. These recent spikes, struggling to see how they impact on the next 6 months of energy supply. It was different last October when we went into this crisis and many suppliers caught off guard and people jumping across to a low SVT which at the time they had not budgeted for. But 12mths on surely they have had time to adjust and understand the number of customers that they have on the SVT and the amount they need to hedge. The SVT has almost become a 6 month fix. We are told that energy is often bought years in advance.

I know its all rather complex, and understand the need for a higher October cap, its the revisions to what the cap will be that just keeps increasing I struggle with, surely we should be protected against these spikes.