Energy news in general

michaels

Scot_39 said:

Put your Daily Mail / Express type stereotypes where they belong - in the bin.

Then put yourself in the position of someone trying to raise a family on benefits - capped at £22k outside london - less than 1 min wage - and remember the benefits cap has been frozen for the last 2 years.

Despite 10% / 4% inflation since - trying to pay their rent (the rent component on UC - again frozen - their rents are not) - often private rent in high 3-->4 figures, taking over half their disposable income - and then theres council tax - yp 5-->10% pa in many cases, food bills and energy bills.

All increased directly or indirectly by govt policy - far higher than they are increasing benefits - some even beating last years 6% MW rise.

And even if you back the green net zero journey - UK's costs - the far higher than essential green costs due to UK's woeful implementation.

Grid thermal constraint curtailment - £3bn pa peak - because we could not plan farms and grid to synchronise their build / delivery.

That still leaves policy, debt compensation, prepay levelisation for those on DD and VAT.

Approx £350 - £1 in every £5 in the cap.

Take just half that away and there would be no need for £150 WHD or WFP from £100 single / £200 couple - except the far smaller number of older pensioners on higher rate.

Take take take with one hand - give not give not give - with another.

Have to agree with you re commissioning power that can't make it to the market and that transfers should be funded via taxation not energy levies.  On the other hand I suspect if it were easier for suppliers to recover debts then there would not be so much arrears.

In general the level of benefits should be a separate discussion to whether we need to make the planet liveable for our older selves and our kids.

Scot_39

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/30/uk-pays-highest-electricity-prices-in-the-world-second-year/

Says it all really.

And seems we wont have to wait until 2029 for the £100 extra policy cost.

With CI today forecasting it as soon as April 2026 - just 6m away.

wrf12345

To be collected from an extra tax on empty properties...

Scot_39

No an extra tax on many if not most properties - including those already on WHD and WFP to help pay their bills.

stripling

Scot_39 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/30/uk-pays-highest-electricity-prices-in-the-world-second-year/

Says it all really.

And seems we wont have to wait until 2029 for the £100 extra policy cost.

With CI today forecasting it as soon as April 2026 - just 6m away.

Ah...the Daily Telegraph and 'facts' about energy. Oops!  And not even a wee passing mention of Britain's marginal pricing system which bases electricity prices on the use of gas. 

This means that all of the power plants running in each half-hour period are paid the same price, set by the final generator that has to switch on to meet demand, which is known as the “marginal” unit. GAS! 

Our power system is far more exposed to gas-fired generation than other countries.



If it was all 'stupid Net Zero..' [it isn't] how come other countries, who are further ahead of us in decarbonisation, don't have similarly high energy prices? 
 
There's lots more to say but I'll leave it at that for now... 😁

Scot_39

Perhaps bacuase they have quite simply done it better and over a longer time frame.

So do they have

CfD contracts - last split out Ofgem figure +£27 on the cap wholesale cost line - adding not lowering costs.

Are their grid companies having to spending another £55-77bn in current 5 year plans (2025-2029) - £11-15.4 bn pa -  forecast spend by the nations 3 TNOs - on new pylons on new HVDC links etc.  Much of it to connect to ludicrously remote from market generatin sources - often over 100s of miles.   And guess who also in the end pays for that ?

Are their consumers facing a govt body - NESO - estimated £8bn pa in grid balancing costs - thats over £250 per connection.  You better hope we have the businesses around to pay their fair share to keep the household costs down by 2029 GE.

And as the fall in prices reverses from AR1 highs higher than nuclear - to AR4 lows - renewables are once again being sold at higher than gas generation costs (AR6 OS wind for instance).  And the dream of cheap green energy is disappearing with those higher costs.

OS (fixed) wind in AR6 for instance - and the price for that was so unattractive 2.4GW - 2/3rds of it has been mothballed if not cancelled - as Orsted walked away from Hornsea 4 licenses. 

https://orsted.com/en/company-announcement-list/2025/05/orsted-to-discontinue-the-hornsea-4-offshore-wind--143901911

And the key bit in all of that "and we’ll seek to develop the project later in a way that is more value-creating for us and our shareholders."  Sounds like shareholder PROFIT, not green ethics driving the market and definitely not consumer interests.

And remember - if you bothered to read the ariticle - that the CI £100 above in 6m - includes social policy costs - not just net zero.

Now the £100 by 2029/30 - that was pure net zero - just like tomorrows £15 rise is.

And the public is getting tired of that constant trickle upwards.  And without public support - it wont just be the likes of Unite union calling for Miliband to go over oill job losses - and at current polling wont just be Miliband going.

So please - as all we want is a simple question answered - when will net zero actually lower our bills - compared to current fossil generation costs ?

Thats total delivered to our door costs - including the full network costs, the full balancing costs - and not as the DESNZ itself has admitted - the failed illusion of savings based on wholesale CfD renwables strike prices vs fossil wholesale rates ?

stripling

@Scot_39
Are their grid companies having to spending another £55-77bn in current 5 year plans (2025-2029) - £11-15.4 bn pa -  forecast spend by the nations 3 TNOs - on new pylons on new HVDC links etc.  Much of it to connect to ludicrously remote from market generatin sources - often over 100s of miles.   And guess who also in the end pays for that ?

Are their consumers facing a govt body - NESO - estimated £8bn pa in grid balancing costs - thats over £250 per connection.

So do they have

CfD contracts - last split out Ofgem figure +£27 on the cap wholesale cost line - adding not lowering costs.

I hate to break to you but..... drum roll....yes, they do.  🤷🏻‍♀️

As I mentioned last week, I was recently in a conference with numerous European Transmission System Operators (including our own, NESO). They all collaborate, communicate and are all physically interlinked into the same European energy market.  It's like the technical expression of neoliberalism writ large in one great big glorious grid. 

So CfDs, FiT payments, HVDC links (that travel thousands of miles further than teensy little Britain 😂) and yes building out grids to accommodate decarbonisation and in some cases (yes, I'm looking at you UK), cover for previous lack of investment you name it, they're doing it. Some with more state cash invested than others. Oh, and Britain's privatisation was the model for Europe back in the 90s. [🙀]

Let's not fall for the lobbyists.... Coal/Gas/Nuclear have all had massive state subsidies in their time. So any suggestion of exceptionalism in decarbonisation is nonsense - it's spin. 

Balancing costs are a small part of consumer bills and are also interlinked with our use of gas.  

Each country has their own details - but the overall direction and route is the same. Decarbonisation isn't a passing fad - it's a very urgent necessity. Me personally, I'm not a fan of the marketisation of it all but that doesn't change what needs to be done.  

Let's be very clear, these things are long term projects with billions invested and contracts going back (and forward) years. So Mr Tice can throw all his toys out of the pram but boy is he going to pay... he'll get sued to the gills and Britain's energy prices are not likely to fall. Did I mention that unlike the rest of Europe we have no gas storage? 

Yes, we need consumer energy prices to come down - tell me about it, I'm a consumer - but allowing fossil fuel funded nonsense about decarbonisation to be used as a political weapon is not going to change anything.  

Far better would be constructive discussion about how we can have a 'just' energy transition that leaves no one behind. I'm all ears. 

wrf12345

You definitely can't expect tax payers who fund the welfare crowd to take an increase in energy costs to, er, fund the welfare crowd...

Scot_39

Tax is tax.  And meant arguably to be progressive.

Energy is energy.

Blurring the lines does not help the poor.

Someone on close to min wage at double the £12570 threshold  - pays tax on £12570 - half their earnings.

Someone on double that wage pays tax on 3/4  - £37710 -  3x as much and even clips tgd 40% band for £10.

If both use median tdcv - they both pay the same  extra being added to our bills by social policy and net zero.  If they both use tge same other amount tge same smaller or larger fraction.


Its arguably not really helping the working poor afford the extra costs.

And when it comes to those on benefits - as above even the old 3.4m on whd part  fund their own, and now the £17 added to today's cap to fund the 2.7m new qualifiers.  Its like taking their uc away to pay others uc. 

It's pretty much the least just, least progressive at any rate , way of recovering the costs.

Another unintended consequence of Labours tax pledge perhaps, but the Cons as guilty of loading our bills in past, whilst increasing it pa, and ni threshold and dropping ni rates - e.g. when policy costs jumped £30 to £188 in Apr 24 cap18 months ago.

Whilst the govts hand non means tested £7500 ashp grants (BUS) and the current one now once again even discounts to those who can afford a now just over £33k - sub £37 k list price ev (ECG) in the name of net zero.

stripling

@Scot_39
So no answer on lower costs then.
Just more green is good,  green is inivitible.
And you think the fossil lobby has an agenda ?

Excuse me? Why are you aiming this nonsense at me? I haven't said any of these things.
Why should I have 'answers' to your sudden passion for the poor? How do you know I'm not one of them?  

What I have done is pointed out the massive holes in the strange things you quote.  
If you are genuinely interested in energy poverty maybe you are asking the wrong questions in the wrong places?  There's a lot wrong with the British energy market that makes energy bills far too high but unless you are lobbying for full state ownership, decarbonisation isn't the problem.  And anyone who says otherwise is playing the game of distraction.