Energy news in general

QrizB

HillStreetBlues said:

It's a shame the reporter just parrot what each said (he said he was named on the bill, Octopus said  he wasn't) without bothering to find out the truth.

Agreed. Whether he was sent a bill in his own name, or not, is a matter of fact not opinion; the BBC should have confirmed it one way or another rather than "both sides"ing it.

Wonder if he's a forum user?

Ildhund

Scot_39 said:

While the advertised date is 30 June, the process will happen by area from 1 July through to 30 September."

I wonder, too, what 'area' means in this context. DNOs have designated areas, each with its Area ID. So when the time comes, will the signal for the whole Scottish Hydro area 17 be switched off at once?

Or - what seems more likely to me - will each RTS group be assessed for degree of preparedness, so that the most advanced ones can be cut adrift before the others? It's apparently simple enough to arrange: if a group's ID isn't included in the broadcast, then no RTSs in that group will act on the signal. 

Scot_39

Ildhund said:

Scot_39 said:

While the advertised date is 30 June, the process will happen by area from 1 July through to 30 September."

I wonder, too, what 'area' means in this context. DNOs have designated areas, each with its Area ID. So when the time comes, will the signal for the whole Scottish Hydro area 17 be switched off at once?

Or - what seems more likely to me - will each RTS group be assessed for degree of preparedness, so that the most advanced ones can be cut adrift before the others? It's apparently simple enough to arrange: if a group's ID isn't included in the broadcast, then no RTSs in that group will act on the signal. 

The SP response uoted in tge guadian link doesn't refer to area - so deleted that word from that section of my post - just "still within the service timeframe".

Edit
But then looking at their website on rts and upgrades
https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/support-centre/rts-meters
Does again talk about "in your area"



But there is chatter in press - like in early May  (not normally a Sun reader but came up on google)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/34747384/energy-meter-update-ofgem-rts/

"In a fresh update, the regulator has confirmed the switch-off will take place in phases rather than happening all at once on June 30 - The Sun can reveal.

However, it has not stated exactly how these phases will be carried out or which regions will be switched off first."

Edit 2
Surely if their is a plan - it should have been published - by Ofgem.
Especially since the "need for emergency plan" media articles that seem to be spring up in last few days.

spot1034

There are only three R4 long wave transmitters - the big one in Droitwitch which covers the majority of the UK, and two in Scotland -  Burghead and Westerglen. So there is scope for Scotland to be affected either earlier than later than consumers in England and Wales, but in reality, apart from a bit of flexibility with Scotland, there is no way of doing it in phases. 

mmmmikey

spot1034 said:

There are only three R4 long wave transmitters - the big one in Droitwitch which covers the majority of the UK, and two in Scotland -  Burghead and Westerglen. So there is scope for Scotland to be affected either earlier than later than consumers in England and Wales, but in reality, apart from a bit of flexibility with Scotland, there is no way of doing it in phases. 

Thanks, that makes sense. Having said that, although the transmitters can't be shut down in phases, the information broadcast by those transmitters possibly could be stopped in phases? Depending on what is being broadcast, maybe the suppliers (or whoever?) could stop transmitting the data that relates to a particular region?

Phones4Chris

mmmmikey said:

spot1034 said:

There are only three R4 long wave transmitters - the big one in Droitwitch which covers the majority of the UK, and two in Scotland -  Burghead and Westerglen. So there is scope for Scotland to be affected either earlier than later than consumers in England and Wales, but in reality, apart from a bit of flexibility with Scotland, there is no way of doing it in phases. 

Thanks, that makes sense. Having said that, although the transmitters can't be shut down in phases, the information broadcast by those transmitters possibly could be stopped in phases? Depending on what is being broadcast, maybe the suppliers (or whoever?) could stop transmitting the data that relates to a particular region?

I was about to post similar to @spot1034 so it cannot be "done in phases" in an simplistic manner if a transmitter is shut down which is what the BBC were saying AiUi.  The RTS signals are a "coded time signal" for want of a simple way of describing it, using phase modulation, so I suppose it would be possible to turn off different time signals at different times, but I frankly couldn't see the point if keeping the transmitter going was the issue. Maybe there's been some reconsideration of how it's going to be done if the transmitter can be kept on air a while longer if not enough RTS meter installations have been replaced.
Whatever, not sure I'd rely on some of the media reports mostly written by so-say "journos" not having an ounce of tech knowledge, the info from https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/support-centre/rts-meters would seem to be the most reliable if there's no official statement on OFGEM's website.

WiserMiser

It's possible that individual RTSs had regional codes, probably based on the old Electricity Board areas.  Each area could be blitzed in turn by technicians and then the codes for that area would no longer be transmitted after the last RTS has been replaced.  But now that SP have confirmed that RTSs will carry on with their most recent schedule in the absence of the RTS signal, it's hard to see what it would achieve.

Perhaps after all RTSs in an area have been removed they'll transmit a schedule that sets peak rate 24/7, i.e. turning off the switched circuits to flush out any RTSs they've missed.  However, that could be problematic if the records weren't 100% accurate and they're sudddenly overwhelmed by little old ladies who find they have no hot water.

Ildhund

WiserMiser said:

It's possible that individual RTSs had regional codes, ...

You might like to have a look at the Wikipedia RTS article, which explains some of the different methods used by DNOs to control supply. In particular, "Although each message will be received by all installed teleswitches, the unique user and group-codes carried by the message ensure that only teleswitches carrying the same combination of codes will act on it." And, if you're feeling really long-haired, there's lots of stuff like this out there: BBC RD 1984-19

Some RTS-controlled systems may continue after switch-off with their latest schedule, but it depends a great deal on how that schedule was set what having it applied permanently will mean. It might for example have been set in anticipation of a heatwave the following day, so no supply to space heating equipment at all.  

Chrysalis

QrizB said:

HillStreetBlues said:

It's a shame the reporter just parrot what each said (he said he was named on the bill, Octopus said  he wasn't) without bothering to find out the truth.

Agreed. Whether he was sent a bill in his own name, or not, is a matter of fact not opinion; the BBC should have confirmed it one way or another rather than "both sides"ing it.

Wonder if he's a forum user?

Lazy journalism, easy to just report what you been told instead of to validate if its true or not.  As you still have a story.

The_Green_Hornet

Thousands to get payouts over forced meter fitting

Tens of thousands of energy customers are set to receive payouts of up to £1,000 each, and could see debts written off, in response to the scandal over the forced fitting of prepayment meters.

Energy companies are paying out more £70m in compensation and financial support to customers.

It follows a review by the regulator, Ofgem, of the way suppliers switched often vulnerable customers to paying upfront, without their agreement, after they fell behind with their bills.

Thousands in line for payouts over forced meter fitting scandal - BBC News