Paying care home fee's .

Linton

alfmurph said:

According to google there are legitimate reasons to transfer money for gifts .
1 - Stopping family disputes .
2 - Wanting the recipient to enjoy the gift whilst you can for opening a business or purchase of a home .
3 - recognising the support of an individual who has provided support and thank them for their strong contribution .
4 - Avoid delays on estate when paying for funeral costs etc .

we are not rich . we are talking about a house worth £120k .

Andd what about this 6 month notional capital rule .

What do you mean "legitimate"?  I dont think the (UK) law cares in general.

Where the making of gifts becomes a matter where the courts can and do get involved is if you do it with other people's money.  To legitimately use someone else's money without explicit permission requires Power of Attorney.  Do you have PoA for your father?  If you dont you have no right to dispose of his assets at all whilst he is alive, and only have a right after he is dead if you are the executor.  So you will need PoA when he enters care.

If you have PoA there is strict guidance issued by the Office of the Public Guardian you may find useful: 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/giving-gifts-a-guide-for-deputies-and-attorneys/opg2-giving-gifts-for-someone-else-web-version

elsien

OP said right back in post one that they have power of attorney. That doesn’t mean they can gift things left, right and centre though; as already linked, it’s not that straightforwards. 

Keep_pedalling

alfmurph said:

I am suitably chastised .
Where did the £50k come from .
Well ten years ago my mum developed motor neurone disease - what a death , I would not wish that on anybody and she was paid £70 or so a week for 3 or 4 years to cover her having a more comfortable lifestyle with caring help etc .
My sister and myself took care of everything without costing her a penny so the cash mounted up .
My dad has been getting the same allowance plus pays no council tax so once again the cash has increased .

We considered and still are moving dad in with one of us but according to his psychiatric nurse this never works as even with the best of intentions people can last about a month before giving up .
Imagine cleaning ecremin from your chairs and cushions , putting nappies on , wiping his privates etc . Some of you have no idea .

My sister who works in a care home refuses to allow her dad into one . It is the pits . Especially council homes . People sitting around all day needing underwear changed , very basic food , no stimulation .

But your points have been taken onboard . I never had any intentio of spending the money just in case the council came calling but just thought it might work .

The house i realise cannot be saved from costs if the worst happens .

I am not a monster - i was asking for advice .

You and your sister are in a difficult position, but you do need to make sure you don’t end up getting yourself into a heap of trouble by mis-managing your father’s finances. 

My step father and mother both ended their lives in residential care, and neither were self funding so depended on  LA funding and a limited choice of where they ended up. My step father needed nursing care for the last 9 months of his life and was lucky enough to be placed in a very good nursing home and he really enjoyed being there.

My mother had dementia and did not require nursing care which meant she spent the last 18 months of her life in a small care home with far fewer facilities and tiny bedrooms. I have no complaints about the quality of care she got there, but it is not the sort of place I want to end up in and she really should have been in residential care 6-9 months before she actually got to be decrepit enough for the finance to be approved.

Your sister does not want him to go into care, but caring for someone with late stage dementia is a terrible burden for a child to take on (my children have been told in no uncertain terms that they must not even think about it) so at some point you may find yourself having to do it, or at least paying for respite care and professional carers to come in and help. 

The important thing now is to preserve his assets so that you have the ability, if residential care is required, to have the choice of where he receives that care, from experience there are some really good care facilities out there, but generally you have to be self funding or have NHS continuing care to get into one.

alfmurph

Going back to chips i liked this because the company offer to do all the work to upkeep the house and find a renter but i imagine there is something in it for them like owning the house in 3 years time .
Someone suggested hiring the house out myself and using this to help care home costs but i would need to bring house up to a certain standard for this .
Could someone tell me what this means please - is it just fire alarms and carbon dioxide alarms or is it more major .

I showed your comments to my sister who is shocked , embarrasted and appalled . She still says dad is not going into a home .
Her husband and her work different shifts , have 2 dogs and they babysit their grandkids when off work .It will not work but she ain't listening .

Thanks for being interested enough to post although you did shock me somewhat .

Marvel1

alfmurph said:

My dad has arund £50k which i have taken out of his name and put in mine to hopefully shield it away  .
Any advice would be helpful please .

You stole his money basically.

I will get banned if I post what I really want to post.

Brie

@alfmurph
some of the people commenting can be very blunt.  try not to take it personally.

Torry_Quine

My MIL was initially self-funding in the care home. When her money went down the council funded her. It made absolutely no difference to the care she  received or the type of room. I doubt the staff knew 

theoretica

alfmurph said:

Going back to chips i liked this because the company offer to do all the work to upkeep the house and find a renter but i imagine there is something in it for them like owning the house in 3 years time .

Another thing possibly in it for them is the rent if your father passes away before the three years, which would leave you unable to sell the property and find that closure.  Never a pleasant topic, but if you haven't had a conversation with the health professionals about your father's life expectancy maybe it would be useful to have this information.

https://www.mygov.scot/renting-your-property-out

elsien

alfmurph said:

Going back to chips i liked this because the company offer to do all the work to upkeep the house and find a renter but i imagine there is something in it for them like owning the house in 3 years time .
Someone suggested hiring the house out myself and using this to help care home costs but i would need to bring house up to a certain standard for this .
Could someone tell me what this means please - is it just fire alarms and carbon dioxide alarms or is it more major .

I showed your comments to my sister who is shocked , embarrasted and appalled . She still says dad is not going into a home .
Her husband and her work different shifts , have 2 dogs and they babysit their grandkids when off work .It will not work but she ain't listening .

Thanks for being interested enough to post although you did shock me somewhat .

It's a big decision to make and you have to treat it as a business, not as a family home. If you are a landlord sentiment has to go out of the window. You also have to be prepared for non-paying tenants and the months (currently 12 months plus, I believe) it takes to evict people if they don't go willingly. Which hopefully won't happen but you need to prepare for all eventualities. 

There is a brief overview for Scotland here.  Landlords' rights and responsibilities - Shelter Scotland

If your sister doesn't want your dad to go into a home, if it does come to him not being able to live independently, then what does she suggest should happen instead?  There are some good care homes out there; she should not be judging it purely from the place that she works at.  And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, that's why he needs the money himself, not squirrelled away for other people. The power of attorney can be taken away from you if you are not using it correctly. 

With regards to CHIPs - the only way you're going to find out about this is by making enquiries. That's not going to commit you to anything, but it will explain what the long terms costs to any estate might be.  It doesn't sound like any of you are living in the house or wanting to live there in future, so you do need to consider whether the hassle of renting etc outweighs any benefits in terms of an inheritance which may or may not come your way. 

Pennylane

Brie said:

@alfmurph
some of the people commenting can be very blunt.  try not to take it personally.

It’s called being direct.  I think most people would not condone moving money around that doesn’t belong to them in order to avoid paying care home fees.  

I was LPA for my late Mum and I took my responsibilities for both Property & Finance and Health and Welfare very seriously indeed.  My Mum was in an excellent care home and was paying about £900 a week but I could not have cared for her (and I didn’t have a spare room) as well as they did.  Her money was her own and I made sure she had lovely clothes, shoes, nightwear, perfume and regular hairdos.  Every penny was accounted for, all invoices and receipts kept down to the last penny.

I felt the Health and Welfare part was just as important as the financial part as I was able to carry out all Mum’s wishes until the day she died.  She was where she wanted to be (not in hospital which she dreaded) she wanted me with her and I was and she wanted to be clean and fresh and comfortable with soft music playing when she passed.  She got all that! 

The duties and responsibilities of an LPA are very, very important and should be taken 100% seriously.