If you were to install a new boiler but want to future proof...

goodwithsaving

My apologies -  I feel I am posting for help frequently at the moment. I do find this forum useful so hope you do not mind.

If you were exploring new boiler options at the moment, bearing in mind I cannot be without heating nor hot water much longer (do not have until April to wait) and I am focusing more on being comfortable in my home than anything else, what would you go for? Would you be happy to install a hydrogen ready (but pure gas currently) combi? 

Considerations: 

• 1 occupier and limited demand on hot water
• Small property
• No set routine
• Boiler will need changing regardless
• Have a dishwasher so limited requirements for hot water once a shower is installed at same time as boiler replacement. 
• Shower a day, and any limited ad-hoc hot water requirement in kitchen 
• Need better pressure for a thermostatic shower 
• Space requirements (tank takes up room I can better use for other things)
• Regular boiler set-up is currently in place. Poor water pressure in bathroom - great water pressure at mains 
• Hot water cylinder is not heating properly and also needs replacing
• Budget considerations - both in terms of gas monthly and overall installation
• Will live here far longer than 14 years i.e. beyond 2035

I do not think the government can expect all owners with combi boilers to be able to install tanks etc for stored hot water should it be heated via alternative means. At some point I will have solar panels mounted on the roof, but this will not be for a few years yet. Ultimately, I need to get this resolved now, but also need a glass ball for the future....

knightstyle

Get a gas combi not too big as they work best when working hard. It should last 15-20 years and then think about an alternative.   Do not be fooled by those advocating 'magic' electric radiators or expensive heat pumps they will cost more over the life of the system.

Bendy_House

goodwithsaving said:

My apologies -  I feel I am posting for help frequently at the moment. I do find this forum useful so hope you do not mind.

If you were exploring new boiler options at the moment, bearing in mind I cannot be without heating nor hot water much longer (do not have until April to wait) and I am focusing more on being comfortable in my home than anything else, what would you go for? Would you be happy to install a hydrogen ready (but pure gas currently) combi? 

Considerations: 

• 1 occupier and limited demand on hot water
• Small property
• No set routine
• Boiler will need changing regardless
• Have a dishwasher so limited requirements for hot water once a shower is installed at same time as boiler replacement. 
• Shower a day, and any limited ad-hoc hot water requirement in kitchen 
• Need better pressure for a thermostatic shower 
• Space requirements (tank takes up room I can better use for other things)
• Regular boiler set-up is currently in place. Poor water pressure in bathroom - great water pressure at mains 
• Hot water cylinder is not heating properly and also needs replacing
• Budget considerations - both in terms of gas monthly and overall installation
• Will live here far longer than 14 years i.e. beyond 2035

I do not think the government can expect all owners with combi boilers to be able to install tanks etc for stored hot water should it be heated via alternative means. At some point I will have solar panels mounted on the roof, but this will not be for a few years yet. Ultimately, I need to get this resolved now, but also need a glass ball for the future....

"At some point I will have solar panels mounted on the roof...", that immediately shouts to me "Use a stored water system". Any excess leccy generated will be diverted to this tank, keeping the water store heated.

If you current water flow is poor, but the mains supply is good, then a swap to 'unvented' (mains-driven) water tank should cure this and give you a great supply everywhere (but actual measurements would need to be taken). An 'unvented' is going to be a ~£1k upgrade, I'd have thought.

That would leave you to replace your knackered boiler will a small 'system' jobbie, which will cost, I dunno, ~£1.5k? Do hydrogen-ready ones cost more?

That should see you 'ok' until this new boiler also goes kaput, which shouldn't be for 15 years. Of course, who the 'ell knows what's going to happen to the cost of natural gas before then? As the pressure to move to leccy intensifies, the obvious way to do this would be to make 'gas' less desirable = increase its cost.

You situation, I understand, is that you need to do something now? To try and second-guess what the future holds is likely to very risky, so I think I would personally just try and minimise costs, and just do what is needed - ie swap the boiler, and either boost the current hot tank's flow using pumps (or mods), or else make the decision to also swap that for unvented.

If the future contains things like ASHPs, then unless you find your home is very easy to heat up, you may also have to fit oversized rads to work with that level of change - how many rads? Think ~£200 a pop? Or fit UFH, which should be the best system for use with ASHPs, but that will cost £kks to install.

These are just my thoughts. I haven't a scooby what's actually going to happen.

bris

A combi is a no brainer for a small property. Worcester and Baxi are already trialing hydrogen with their next gen boilers.

Regardless a new combi now will as, said be good for 10-15.

goodwithsaving

Thank you. I am certainly more in favour of a combi. I think that's the route I will take, although the unvented cylinder is tempting but I just don't find heating a tank of water I may not use, an attractive option

aoleks

https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/products/boilers/directory/greenstar-8000-style-combi

Get one of these and enjoy life…

Bendy_House

goodwithsaving said:

Thank you. I am certainly more in favour of a combi. I think that's the route I will take, although the unvented cylinder is tempting but I just don't find heating a tank of water I may not use, an attractive option

Totally understandable. And going 'combi' - especially a future-proofed one like Aoleks linked to - is probably the most cost-effective solution for you too.

Ie - since you have pressure issues from your existing hot tank, that would also need addressing (usually with pumps) should you wish to just replace the boiler you have with a similar type. So the usual extra cost of going 'combi' would likely be pretty close to 'same type of boiler as current + add pumps' solution.

How many PV panels would you hope to add in future? And would this be alongside a battery storage? If 'only a few' and 'no', then the benefits from these few PV panels will, I think, be very limited. So this might possibly be a reason to consider (ie, not necessarily dismiss) the idea of an unvented hot cylinder or 'thermal heat store'.

Thermal Stores are like unvented hot cylinders, but with extra connections. They are also very highly insulated, so heat loss should be minimal. They are used as heat energy 'batteries', usually in conjunction with renewable energy sources such as PV or solar heat panels. The idea is that the PVs (and whatever else you may have) is used to fill it up with as much stored heat as possible, and then this is then used to provide your CH and DHW (the latter is heated 'instantly' via a coiled pipe sitting in the hot water). Any spare leccy generated by PV panels will go straight into the tank - perfect for sunny days in winter - and the tank's temp is topped up by the gas boiler as and when it's needed. Once 'hot', this store can provide your CH in the evening.

It's a nice idea in theory, and is probably the best solution if, say, you have more than one renewable energy source - say PV and a log burner. But I have no idea how effective it would be with just PV panels.

Anyone know?

Section62

goodwithsaving said:

Thank you. I am certainly more in favour of a combi. I think that's the route I will take, although the unvented cylinder is tempting but I just don't find heating a tank of water I may not use, an attractive option

The future of domestic heating is uncertain, but taking the different factors into account, IMV everything in pointing towards us having to store more energy in the home (in batteries/heat stores/hot water cylinders) so that we buy in energy when it is cheaper, and avoiding using it at times of day when it is more expensive.

Without doubt, gas central heating will be phased out in the 2030's.  Particularly if you live in more densely developed towns and cities.

A well insulated hot water cylinder is a cheap and effective means of storing hot water until it is needed.

As another poster mentioned it is the perfect pairing with solar PV as you can convert and store the energy from the panels in the form of hot water.


Within the next decade I believe the BiB will sound like saying today "I don't use rechargable batteries because charging them with electricity I might not use is a waste".


Obviously what you buy and install is your own choice, but in answer to your thread title "If you were to install a new boiler but want to future proof..."

...then on grounds of both cost and future-proofing then I would say that fixing what you currently have and having a system boiler is a no brainer.  And get an immersion heater added to the HWC, if you don't have one already.

goodwithsaving said:

I do not think the government can expect all owners with combi boilers to be able to install tanks etc for stored hot water should it be heated via alternative means.

People who choose not to make space in their homes for stored hot water will have the alternative of using an instantaneous water heater (electric) - heating the water at whatever the cost per unit at the time of use.  Ouch.

macman

Gas boilers are not going anywhere, not in 2030 or 2035. There will be a ban on them in new builds at some point, but there will have to be a replacement market available for decades going forward-no govt is going to start ripping out boilers in 25m homes by compulsion.
The gas grid will only be converted to hydrogen if the considerable technical problems of hydrogen extraction can be solved, which could take decades. We were promised carbon capture years ago, and how far has that moved forward since?
As the OP quite correctly points out, millions of homes with combi's do not have the room for stored hot water, which will be a requirement of solar/heat pump/electric systems. Nor do many flats above ground floor level have anywhere to install heat pumps.

Bendy_House

It's hard to predict, indeed, but I guess the simplest way to replace a gas combi is with an electric boiler. Expensive to run at the moment, but possibly comparable by the time they've priced gas out of our hands.

Also not sure what %-age of H2 can be sent through our existing pipe network due to losses. That might be a bigger issue even than producing it in the first place...

macman

Since a full 37% of our electricity is still generated from gas plant, then I don't expect electricity to become competitive with gas any time soon...