Very confused, not sure whats going on with a CCJ

teknotel

Redx said:

teknotel said:

Hey guys, Hearing is on Wednesdays. I may have left it a little late, but I am unsure as to what will happen, what I will be expected to say, the format and basically all process surrounding it all.

Is there a guide anywhere on the site?  I thgink I understand my argument but do you have any final tips or suggestions before it happens Wednesday morning?

Can't wait for this to be over, really hope it goes well.

The coupon mad telephone hearings thread is one source , written by coupon mad over 18 months ago

Plus read a dozen completed court cases within the last 12 months , see their court reports , it's how we learn a lot too

No research is bad for you , so search and read , like we do

I have had a look but honestly I think unless you know of these threads they really are not as easy to find for someone who is only here once in a while for help with their case.

I have one new born child and one toddler as well as a business that employs 10-20 people, I do not have a lot of time.

I had a quick skim through Coupon mads profile with the 30-60 mins I had free this morning and could not find the thread from 18 months ago, I looked through some of her discussions but could not find what you referenced in the time I had.

I was free from responsibilities of work and hom at 10pm this evening, one hour ago and I started by looking at the main newbies thread. This had the most information so far, but very little of it actually laid our how the court hearing will go, one guy gave his account of how it went for him but it was brief and specifc.

I then searched CCJ. Absolute non starter, nothing remotely near. 

Then I just went from the front page of parking fines and skimmed through hoping for a CCJ thread. There are so many threads and it would be hard to know which one may have a set aside CCJ hearing, I just went for ones that may have had a name relecting it or had lots of comments. Alas no luck, I also realised that there are SO MANY posts here. I got to the third page and realised I was still on new comments from today, 2:30pm actually so not even the whole day. This approach seems like a waste of time.

Then I thought search set aside, I actually thought I cracked here, but in actual fact though it may be the most likely it is almost certainly the largest time sink of all, every single thread needs to checked and read to be sure. So far 4 pages in NONE of them have info on how a set aside hearing may go in terms of format. Most of them are people listing an issue and never returning, but all need to be clicked and scrolled through, hence the time taken is quite long when you start getting through the pages.

I will try a little longer and appreciate the help, but honestly I am not really sure where to begin in terms of searching the forum for info I need. I have just noticed some cases are closed, so i may just try these in the hope they have been resolved, however even then there is no guarantee they will contain any relevant information. I don't have much longer left time wise for now or even in the morning before the hearing.

At the end of the day I understand my argument in laymans terms, it is very simple. I am going to hope the judge prompts me on what to say or asks me questions and I will answer them.

My argument is completely contained in my witness statement and the crux of it is that despite having a working service address for me with 100% success rate communication wise, when it came to taking me to court, the claimant didn't bother using any of my successful contact addresses and used an address I have never responded from.

I did write this address at the top of my appeal letter, which I emailed them, but this was for 2 reasons:

a) I own this property but rent it out as a holiday let to a management company and felt it was more representative for official purposes than my rented address.

b) I do not trust these people and didn't want them showing up at an address where I had family, I did not know if they have this power or not at the time.

I also did not realise they would be able to take me to court without my knowledge and ruin my credit history, I believed they would have to take reasonable steps to locate me which could have been done without even searching as they had my correct DVLA address and my email address, both of which had a history of successfull communication with them over 3 different PCNs. 

I think this alone should be enough to show I was not served the notice correctly and the fact I have both a permit and written permission to park in the space shows I have more than a good chance of appealing the original charge.

I hope this will be enough. I will update you all how it goes tomorrow. Thanks for all your help.

Coupon-mad

My argument is completely contained in my witness statement and the crux of it is that despite having a working service address for me with 100% success rate communication wise, when it came to taking me to court, the claimant didn't bother using any of my successful contact addresses and used an address I have never responded from.

I did write this address at the top of my appeal letter, which I emailed them, but this was for 2 reasons:

a) I own this property but rent it out as a holiday let to a management company and felt it was more representative for official purposes than my rented address.

b) I do not trust these people and didn't want them showing up at an address where I had family, I did not know if they have this power or not at the time.

I also did not realise they would be able to take me to court without my knowledge and ruin my credit history, I believed they would have to take reasonable steps to locate me which could have been done without even searching as they had my correct DVLA address and my email address, both of which had a history of successful communication with them over 3 different PCNs. 

You've got it.  That is your argument for a set aside hearing and the bit in bold is important.  There were two possible addresses and they couldn't simply choose one. 

That's not good enough and a Soft Trace from Experian only costs 29 pence in bulk cases, such as this serial litigator!   They could have found out in minutes (for peanuts) that your correct address for service of court papers and your address at which you reside, was xxxxxx. 

Instead, they plumped for one of the (50/50 chance of being right) addresses they had on file and didn't even attempt emailing you to check, either.  That would have cost nothing.
  
Please also be ready to state what your defence against the PCN will involve, as you MAY have to convince the Judge that you have reasonable chances of success, if they are not convinced that a mandatory set aside is warranted but are considering how promptly you acted when you found out, and that you might be able to defend this if they use their discretion to set aside the CCJ and let you take it to trial about the unfair PCN.

FrankCannon

Try putting "another one bites the dust" (with quote marks) in the Search the forum box at the top of this page and click the search button.

You can then filter the results by clicking the Categories button, then type Parking in the Category box on the right, select "Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking" from the drop-down list, and click the black Filter button.

Not all threads reach the court stage, but you should come across a fair few in the search results.

Le_Kirk

Try this one -
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6130456/telephone-hearings-re-parking-firm-claims-can-we-all-discuss-strategy-and-outcomes-here/p1

teknotel

WooHoo! Judgment set aside and costs to paid by OPS!

He didn't really deal with the address issue in his judgement despite most of the hearing being abt ascertaining my addresses etc. but he said that based on their evidence it appears they issued the ticket 3 minutes after I arrived and therefore a court may or may not find this was too quick and that the ticket was not issued correctly.

Also, thanks for reminding me to ask for consent to set aside, this seemed to be the main factor in awarding me the costs. He asked me when I asked them for consent to set aside and basically said because I asked and they didn't accept he will award me the costs.

I don't think its completely the end of the matter as I have been asked to send a defence via email for the actual parking charge within 21 days and to serve upon DCBLegal, not sure what this means but it seems the difficult part may be over! If anyone could point me in the right direction with this would be great. Do I just write a letter outlining my argument or does it need to be in legal format like the witness statement.

Oh and the first thing he asked me was if I got my witness statement off of the internet lol.

Does anyone know also:

a) how long will it take for the costs to be paid back to me and

b) how long until the CCJ is removed from my credit record. I want to get a mortgage and buy a van on credit through my business and this has been stopping me, is it instant? How will I know when its gone.


Thank you for all your help!

Le_Kirk

You submit a defence using the template defence, which is located as one of the announcements on page one of the forum.  If you have e-mail details for the court, use that to send it.  If you want, you can show the defence here for critique before submitting.  Only show us the paragraphs that you edit (usually 2# and 3#) or add then, when you submit it, you add in the rest of the paragraphs.
Well done on getting the set-aside.

ParkingMad

Well done! 

The judge usually states how long the claimant has to pay you. It is often within 14 days. The court should send you a copy of the judgment which will tell you this.

Here are all the contracts between OPS and BHCC for the years 2013 to 2021 -

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/parking_enforcement_on_housing_l#incoming-1608530

teknotel

Here are points 2 and 3 I have edited from the template defence for your feedback. Thanks in advance,

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2.       It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question but liability is denied. The Defendant also admits to being the driver at the time the parking was issued. 

3.    The Defendant is not liable to pay the parking charge at all in this situation because the ticket was issued incorrectly. The Defendant was issued the ticket 3 minutes after arriving in the car park whilst he was retrieving the permit from his friend, the space holder’s, property. The Defendant had full permission from the space holder, who is disabled and was being assisted with shopping by the Defendant, along with a valid and in date permit to park here. The property is on the 7th floor of Essex House and 3 minutes is simply not enough time to take the lift, retrieve the permit and take the lift back down to display the permit in the vehicle.

ParkingMad

Page 6 of the BHCC contract from 2019 says that OPS should allow a 15 or 30 minute observation period (depending on the location) before issuing a PCN. 

Coupon-mad

Add that point in.  That's why ParkingMad provided you with the contracts, to read and use them.  Also add in the BPA CoP rule about consideration periods from the Code version from the right year.

Word missed out here:

"The Defendant also admits to being the driver at the time the parking charge was issued."

And I suggest you ALSO do a new witness statement (this time in support of your defence) with the above Exhibits attached, and a picture of the permit if it's possible.

Maybe (if possible) a second WS from the disabled resident confirming your account and what floor their flat is on and that the visitor permit is, of course, securely kept indoors for use by various carers or family cars when they visit.

This is all needed in addition to your defence because when CCJs are set aside, the system is unfair and odd and Judges only ask for a defence, and often you get no chance to do a WS and evidence about the PCN.  It's an odd situation after a set aside so we tell people not to ONLY do the defence the Judge ordered.  File and serve a WS and evidence too.  Show us first.

You should get paid by cheque this month and the CCJ will disappear too!

WELL DONE!!   The costs must have been hundreds!

Could not have happened to a nastier cowboy ex-clamper firm, IMHO. I suspect they will discontinue and you won't have to go through another hearing.