Pensions envy. Are we heading for financially comfortable but socially uncomfortable retirements?

zagfles

Albermarle said:

Thats the nice thing about this forum, its a place to take openly without fear of reprisal.

Apart from the threads where someone asks 'do I need to pay for an IFA?' 

Yes you don't get a sensible laid back discussion when vested interests are being defended

Workerdrone

zagfles said:

Workerdrone said:

For me and probably quite a few on here pension saving is almost a hobby. I set a target date and amount and I get a kick out of finding ways to put extra away or when I see my pot grow.

But I realise this is not for everyone. When reading the news/other forums/Facebook editorials I tend to jump on articles which mention pensions. Having read the article, I then scroll down to the comments.

Theres a shocking amount of negativity around pensions in general, ranging from "I can't afford to save anything", "Who on earth has a million pound pension:", "It's the governments fault we have the lowest state pension in Europe" to "Pensions are a con".

Interspersed in this is the very occasional voice of reason pointing out the tax breaks and even the odd brave soul staring the uncomfortable truth "If you don't save, you have no-one to blame but yourself". Still it all seems to fall on deaf ears.

It seems the majority of Britains are still content to bury their heads regarding retirement savings whilst at the same time splurging on the latest phones, subscriptions, frothy coffees, foreign holidays and eating out.

Right now, the negativity is constrained to the comments section, but I also realise these people are our peer group and in 15-25 years time they are facing a bleak retirement whilst those like us who save are not.

Given the tendency for people to blame others/circumstances for their own misfortunes alongside suggesting others success was somehow a matter of luck or even immorality as opposed to hard work and fiscal prudence, are we facing a retirement where out hard saved for nice cars, holidays, meals and general lifestyle attract negativity (Or in the case of nice cars even vandalism)

Why do you suppose such people are representative? There's no more represetative than this board. There's loads of haters, ranters, conspiracy theorists and just stupid, bitter clueless, self pitying, judgemental people on social media. Just read tw*tter! Just compare what you read on social media with the recent election results. It's obvious the ranters are a tiny minority. As I said in another thread, media comment sections are full of such people but it's the same people who'll comment on everything time and time again. It gives them their outlet, their little bit of attention, if it was going to spill over into the real world it would have done by now.

Well, lets hope you're right, but it only takes one such individual to key a car to really put a downer on your day

Workerdrone

Silvertabby said:

eastcorkram said:

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm sure that as soon as it's politically popular, all pension savings deemed surplus, will be confiscated and re destributed to the needy 

Not as daft as that sounds.  I'm not saying that this was actually Labour party policy, just that before the 2010 election a female Labour MP spouted her solution to the 'problem of single pensioners rattling round in big houses, when families were crammed into 2 bed flats'.  No, she didn't mean pensioners in council houses (ie, Labour voters) she meant owner occupiers.

Her 'solution' was to raise the council tax to an unaffordable level then offer the pensioner an 'appropriate' assisted living flat' for 'free' in return for allowing the house to be used as social housing.  

Some of the ideas floated by Labour since 2010 have been really scary. I'm not surprised they got such a hiding in the 2019 election

IvanOpinion

Workerdrone said:

A little off topic but I feel its relevant.  It's a funny old thing human nature, especially envy. I've always been a saver (I don't like the idea of being poor), hence always saved toward my longer term goals.

Back when I was 18 (I'm 45 now), I had a break up with my girlfriend that hit me hard. I needed something to focus on so for the next 3 years I did nothing but overtime 6 days a week followed by going to the gym.

At 21 I bought a brand new Lotus Elise S1 (They had just come out). I just loved the look of the car and It was something to polish. Was never a boy racer (Dad being a ROSPA instructor put pay to that).

What I hadn't expected was the amount of stick I would get for it. "Your dad bought it for you", "Your spoilt" etc. It was even vandalised at one point when parked up.

Thing is, I still incredibly now get comments now from people I barely know. Oh you're that lad who's dad bought him the Lotus. Theres even one lad in his early 20's who lives over the back of me who I overheard last summer having a right whinge to his mate about the posh !!!!!! over the fence who's dad bought him a Lotus and a load of other made up cobblers about my families financial circumstance. I thought to myself, "Christ you weren't even born back in 1997, what gives!"

I have a friend (He's a taxman now but don't hold that against him) who did the same as me (although I didn't know him at the time) at the same age, and had the same experience.

So yes, its seems it's a common theme with human nature not to accept responsibility for your own failings and instead to blame others success not on their own diligence but on some other easy route which you weren't blessed with.

We are well known among friends, family and neighbours for taking multiple fancy holidays every year (last 2 years excepted).  Most people are happy for us but I am surprised at the number of negative comments such 'it is alright for you', 'its well for some', 'we couldn't afford that' etc. etc. - including from people who I know earn as much or more than I do.  It got to the point where we refused to talk about up coming plans simply because of the comments.

I then felt like 'why shouldn't I talk about our plans' and if people want to whinge and moan let them.  There is one neighbour in particular who keeps going on about 'It is OK for you with plenty of money' - I now usually just say something along the lines of 'we have it tough too you know, I am now lighting my cigars with a £10 note instead of a £20 note and we have had to downgrade our toilet paper to £5 notes'.

Why can't people just be happy for other peoples achievements instead of wallowing in self pity and jealousy.

Sea_Shell

I was asked if I'd won the lottery, by colleagues, when I handed my notice in!!

It's as if people can't comprehend that it might have actually been planned for and saved for....that it must just be "luck"*.  But then 47 is unusual! 😉




*Although, I'll admit that we have been "lucky" in the sense that we haven't had any major disasters befall us, to derail our plans....yet!! 😲

Bobziz

Sewing division and fear is clearly useful for some. Be great if people dug into the evidence or perhaps lack of it before making broad generalisations. 

Workerdrone

IvanOpinion said:

Workerdrone said:

A little off topic but I feel its relevant.  It's a funny old thing human nature, especially envy. I've always been a saver (I don't like the idea of being poor), hence always saved toward my longer term goals.

Back when I was 18 (I'm 45 now), I had a break up with my girlfriend that hit me hard. I needed something to focus on so for the next 3 years I did nothing but overtime 6 days a week followed by going to the gym.

At 21 I bought a brand new Lotus Elise S1 (They had just come out). I just loved the look of the car and It was something to polish. Was never a boy racer (Dad being a ROSPA instructor put pay to that).

What I hadn't expected was the amount of stick I would get for it. "Your dad bought it for you", "Your spoilt" etc. It was even vandalised at one point when parked up.

Thing is, I still incredibly now get comments now from people I barely know. Oh you're that lad who's dad bought him the Lotus. Theres even one lad in his early 20's who lives over the back of me who I overheard last summer having a right whinge to his mate about the posh !!!!!! over the fence who's dad bought him a Lotus and a load of other made up cobblers about my families financial circumstance. I thought to myself, "Christ you weren't even born back in 1997, what gives!"

I have a friend (He's a taxman now but don't hold that against him) who did the same as me (although I didn't know him at the time) at the same age, and had the same experience.

So yes, its seems it's a common theme with human nature not to accept responsibility for your own failings and instead to blame others success not on their own diligence but on some other easy route which you weren't blessed with.

We are well known among friends, family and neighbours for taking multiple fancy holidays every year (last 2 years excepted).  Most people are happy for us but I am surprised at the number of negative comments such 'it is alright for you', 'its well for some', 'we couldn't afford that' etc. etc. - including from people who I know earn as much or more than I do.  It got to the point where we refused to talk about up coming plans simply because of the comments.

I then felt like 'why shouldn't I talk about our plans' and if people want to whinge and moan let them.  There is one neighbour in particular who keeps going on about 'It is OK for you with plenty of money' - I now usually just say something along the lines of 'we have it tough too you know, I am now lighting my cigars with a £10 note instead of a £20 note and we have had to downgrade our toilet paper to £5 notes'.

Why can't people just be happy for other peoples achievements instead of wallowing in self pity and jealousy.

I'm not buy nature a jealous person. I'm happy to hear of others successes. When I learned that the euromillions £187m had been won by someone in France my first reaction was "I hope they sit down this morning, have a lovely breakfast and then spend the day making exciting plans" :-)

Sea_Shell

Workerdrone said:

IvanOpinion said:

Workerdrone said:

A little off topic but I feel its relevant.  It's a funny old thing human nature, especially envy. I've always been a saver (I don't like the idea of being poor), hence always saved toward my longer term goals.

Back when I was 18 (I'm 45 now), I had a break up with my girlfriend that hit me hard. I needed something to focus on so for the next 3 years I did nothing but overtime 6 days a week followed by going to the gym.

At 21 I bought a brand new Lotus Elise S1 (They had just come out). I just loved the look of the car and It was something to polish. Was never a boy racer (Dad being a ROSPA instructor put pay to that).

What I hadn't expected was the amount of stick I would get for it. "Your dad bought it for you", "Your spoilt" etc. It was even vandalised at one point when parked up.

Thing is, I still incredibly now get comments now from people I barely know. Oh you're that lad who's dad bought him the Lotus. Theres even one lad in his early 20's who lives over the back of me who I overheard last summer having a right whinge to his mate about the posh !!!!!! over the fence who's dad bought him a Lotus and a load of other made up cobblers about my families financial circumstance. I thought to myself, "Christ you weren't even born back in 1997, what gives!"

I have a friend (He's a taxman now but don't hold that against him) who did the same as me (although I didn't know him at the time) at the same age, and had the same experience.

So yes, its seems it's a common theme with human nature not to accept responsibility for your own failings and instead to blame others success not on their own diligence but on some other easy route which you weren't blessed with.

We are well known among friends, family and neighbours for taking multiple fancy holidays every year (last 2 years excepted).  Most people are happy for us but I am surprised at the number of negative comments such 'it is alright for you', 'its well for some', 'we couldn't afford that' etc. etc. - including from people who I know earn as much or more than I do.  It got to the point where we refused to talk about up coming plans simply because of the comments.

I then felt like 'why shouldn't I talk about our plans' and if people want to whinge and moan let them.  There is one neighbour in particular who keeps going on about 'It is OK for you with plenty of money' - I now usually just say something along the lines of 'we have it tough too you know, I am now lighting my cigars with a £10 note instead of a £20 note and we have had to downgrade our toilet paper to £5 notes'.

Why can't people just be happy for other peoples achievements instead of wallowing in self pity and jealousy.

I'm not buy nature a jealous person. I'm happy to hear of others successes. When I learned that the euromillions £187m had been won by someone in France my first reaction was "I hope they sit down this morning, have a lovely breakfast and then spend the day making exciting plans" :-)

They'll now have more family than they ever knew they had!!!! 😉🤣😉

Ganga

Ibrahim5 said:

I find the intergenerational stuff a bit scary. I never even thought about whether my grandparents or parents should have retired when they did or where their income came from. I am sure my kids will never stop telling me how lucky I was to retire early.

I think things have changed now ,i know my grandparents had little but in their time the man worked whilst his wife brought up the 4 kids ,my parents were the same ,dad worked ,mam brought up 4 kids , our tea was always on the table , holidays if any were in a caravan in the lakes ,happy days at the time.

Workerdrone

Bobziz said:

Sewing division and fear is clearly useful for some. Be great if people dug into the evidence or perhaps lack of it before making broad generalisations. 

We'll it's a bit difficult to find actual evidence given how people keep their financial matters quite close to their chest (Apart from on forums like this), hence the purpose of the discussion. As an earlier poster put, its quite possible that the bitter complainers are just the minority who you find on comments sections. Personally I am worried about how my sister in law will take it. She's always been a wasteful spender, my brother in law works, she doesn't although there's no actual reason for it. Unfortunately he has close to zero pension so they will be in a bit of a pickle. She has a tendency to make family gatherings very awkward when she's in a mood.