Pensions envy. Are we heading for financially comfortable but socially uncomfortable retirements?

IvanOpinion

Workerdrone said:
I'm not buy nature a jealous person. I'm happy to hear of others successes. When I learned that the euromillions £187m had been won by someone in France my first reaction was "I hope they sit down this morning, have a lovely breakfast and then spend the day making exciting plans" :-)

I am trying to figure out if I am a long lost cousin

cfw1994

SMcGill said:

I’ve given up talking to my brother about pensions, he sees any unspent money as a ‘wasted opportunity’ and that would be fine, each to their own, if he didn’t also consider me ‘lucky’. That really winds me up, especially when I wasn’t the one who did things like buy a Porsche AND a Harley Davidson when I hit 40 

I'm reading that last line & beginning to think he's the one doing the right thing now.....will he regret those things when he is old?   I suspect not!

I sometimes regret NOT carrying on m/biking....last one briefly owned about 25 years ago!  Used one all the time during my youth....following a student job Stateside, I bought one in Boise Idaho, travelled a bunch of western States, then sold it in Albuquerque...happy days 😎
Made up for it since by pedalling about a bit, but maybe one day I'll get powered 2 wheels again 👀

All that said....I still advocate putting pension monies away early & often, & in some way it remains up to those of us who are parents to instil that ethos in our offspring.   
I also feel it could be better taught at school, but of course something else would need dropping out.   No easy answers to that!

daz378

I have 20 years   lgps    we are 6.5 years  into tupe..  heard rumours  contracts maybe changing...hope not ...I am loosely aiming  to retire  in 5 years at 60   as being a carer is draining,   but my forecast at 60 is only 9k ish...lump sum pitiful  as  they stopped adding to it after 2008....my colleague who went to school with   as retired at 55  her lump sum 10 x mine as she started a decade earlier...I wished her well but admitted  I was jealous.  I'm being as frugal as possible to build a lump sum  towards my retirement.    Maybe I can retire at 60 if the lgps   the 80 rule still applies 

zagfles

Bobziz said:

Workerdrone said:

Bobziz said:

Sewing division and fear is clearly useful for some. Be great if people dug into the evidence or perhaps lack of it before making broad generalisations. 

We'll it's a bit difficult to find actual evidence given how people keep their financial matters quite close to their chest (Apart from on forums like this), hence the purpose of the discussion. As an earlier poster put, its quite possible that the bitter complainers are just the minority who you find on comments sections. Personally I am worried about how my sister in law will take it. She's always been a wasteful spender, my brother in law works, she doesn't although there's no actual reason for it. Unfortunately he has close to zero pension so they will be in a bit of a pickle. She has a tendency to make family gatherings very awkward when she's in a mood.

Agree, it is difficult but that didn't stop you writing "It seems the majority of Britains are still content to bury their heads regarding retirement savings whilst at the same time splurging on the latest phones, subscriptions, frothy coffees, foreign holidays and eating out.". 

We all like to have opinions, myself included, I just wonder whether the world would be a better place if we spent a little more time looking at the evidence before we made them, particularly if they result in us viewing others negatively. 

Jealousy and resentment exists, but I'm conscious that we still seem to be far from having a society where all have equal opportunities. As a white middle class male, I feel privileged in that my opportunities have been fairly easy to come by. I've still had to make the most of them, but they were there in the first place. Others are not so lucky.

So, saving is easier for some than others, that seems clear. However, I suspect that there are also those that for various reasons do have the means to save and build a reasonable pension but do not. Martin is trying to deal with the ignorance aspect of this with the push to improve education. As parents and grandparents we can help here too. 

Once people have the knowledge and ability to save then in theory they should. However, I suspect that there will still be those that don't, and they may blame others for this as you say. I'm not sure there's a lot we can do about this other than maybe not fear them and reflect that their jealousy and animosity towards others may result from their own unhappiness. Hopefully they're few and far between !

Yes, people should definitely look at the actual evidence from studies of the whole population, rather than anecdotes (aka "lived experience") and extremely rare events, which grievance mongers continually use to convince us all that opportunity and outcomes in life are intricately linked to our identity in terms of race/gender/religion/sexuality/background etc.

That would indeed make the world a much better place.

Silvertabby

daz378 said:

I have 20 years   lgps    we are 6.5 years  into tupe..  heard rumours  contracts maybe changing...hope not ...I am loosely aiming  to retire  in 5 years at 60   as being a carer is draining,   but my forecast at 60 is only 9k ish...lump sum pitiful  as  they stopped adding to it after 2008....my colleague who went to school with   as retired at 55  her lump sum 10 x mine as she started a decade earlier...I wished her well but admitted  I was jealous.  I'm being as frugal as possible to build a lump sum  towards my retirement.    Maybe I can retire at 60 if the lgps   the 80 rule still applies 

The accrual rate also changed in 2008, from 1/80th with 3/80th lump sum to 1/60th with no automatic lump sum.  Overall, there's very little difference between the two, but the latter is more flexible as it gives you the choice of a maximum pension or a reduced pension and a commuted lump sum.

I can't see the R85 rules being changed again any time soon - but note that, at your age, the protections only apply to your pre 2008 service.  If you retire at 60, benefits accrued from 2008 to 2014 will be taken 5 years early, and benefits accrued from 2014 will taken 7 years early (SPA) and reduced accordingly. 

Hopefully, any change in contract won't affect your eligibility for LGPS membership (although this can't be ruled out).  If so, have you considered in-house AVCs as a way of enhancing your tax free lump sum?  AVCs are tax relief in, tax free out (subject to HMRC limits).

Bobziz

zagfles said:

Bobziz said:

Workerdrone said:

Bobziz said:

Sewing division and fear is clearly useful for some. Be great if people dug into the evidence or perhaps lack of it before making broad generalisations. 

We'll it's a bit difficult to find actual evidence given how people keep their financial matters quite close to their chest (Apart from on forums like this), hence the purpose of the discussion. As an earlier poster put, its quite possible that the bitter complainers are just the minority who you find on comments sections. Personally I am worried about how my sister in law will take it. She's always been a wasteful spender, my brother in law works, she doesn't although there's no actual reason for it. Unfortunately he has close to zero pension so they will be in a bit of a pickle. She has a tendency to make family gatherings very awkward when she's in a mood.

Agree, it is difficult but that didn't stop you writing "It seems the majority of Britains are still content to bury their heads regarding retirement savings whilst at the same time splurging on the latest phones, subscriptions, frothy coffees, foreign holidays and eating out.". 

We all like to have opinions, myself included, I just wonder whether the world would be a better place if we spent a little more time looking at the evidence before we made them, particularly if they result in us viewing others negatively. 

Jealousy and resentment exists, but I'm conscious that we still seem to be far from having a society where all have equal opportunities. As a white middle class male, I feel privileged in that my opportunities have been fairly easy to come by. I've still had to make the most of them, but they were there in the first place. Others are not so lucky.

So, saving is easier for some than others, that seems clear. However, I suspect that there are also those that for various reasons do have the means to save and build a reasonable pension but do not. Martin is trying to deal with the ignorance aspect of this with the push to improve education. As parents and grandparents we can help here too. 

Once people have the knowledge and ability to save then in theory they should. However, I suspect that there will still be those that don't, and they may blame others for this as you say. I'm not sure there's a lot we can do about this other than maybe not fear them and reflect that their jealousy and animosity towards others may result from their own unhappiness. Hopefully they're few and far between !

Yes, people should definitely look at the actual evidence from studies of the whole population, rather than anecdotes (aka "lived experience") and extremely rare events, which grievance mongers continually use to convince us all that opportunity and outcomes in life are intricately linked to our identity in terms of race/gender/religion/sexuality/background etc.

That would indeed make the world a much better place.

I'm guessing that you're not a gay black disabled Muslim women ?

daz378

Thanks I have thought about avcs   and will make use of them...especially  if it looks like they will change contracts....I know it makes sense financially either way...just dont want to give up too much liquidity...in case I need it

zagfles

Bobziz said:

zagfles said:

Bobziz said:

Workerdrone said:

Bobziz said:

Sewing division and fear is clearly useful for some. Be great if people dug into the evidence or perhaps lack of it before making broad generalisations. 

We'll it's a bit difficult to find actual evidence given how people keep their financial matters quite close to their chest (Apart from on forums like this), hence the purpose of the discussion. As an earlier poster put, its quite possible that the bitter complainers are just the minority who you find on comments sections. Personally I am worried about how my sister in law will take it. She's always been a wasteful spender, my brother in law works, she doesn't although there's no actual reason for it. Unfortunately he has close to zero pension so they will be in a bit of a pickle. She has a tendency to make family gatherings very awkward when she's in a mood.

Agree, it is difficult but that didn't stop you writing "It seems the majority of Britains are still content to bury their heads regarding retirement savings whilst at the same time splurging on the latest phones, subscriptions, frothy coffees, foreign holidays and eating out.". 

We all like to have opinions, myself included, I just wonder whether the world would be a better place if we spent a little more time looking at the evidence before we made them, particularly if they result in us viewing others negatively. 

Jealousy and resentment exists, but I'm conscious that we still seem to be far from having a society where all have equal opportunities. As a white middle class male, I feel privileged in that my opportunities have been fairly easy to come by. I've still had to make the most of them, but they were there in the first place. Others are not so lucky.

So, saving is easier for some than others, that seems clear. However, I suspect that there are also those that for various reasons do have the means to save and build a reasonable pension but do not. Martin is trying to deal with the ignorance aspect of this with the push to improve education. As parents and grandparents we can help here too. 

Once people have the knowledge and ability to save then in theory they should. However, I suspect that there will still be those that don't, and they may blame others for this as you say. I'm not sure there's a lot we can do about this other than maybe not fear them and reflect that their jealousy and animosity towards others may result from their own unhappiness. Hopefully they're few and far between !

Yes, people should definitely look at the actual evidence from studies of the whole population, rather than anecdotes (aka "lived experience") and extremely rare events, which grievance mongers continually use to convince us all that opportunity and outcomes in life are intricately linked to our identity in terms of race/gender/religion/sexuality/background etc.

That would indeed make the world a much better place.

I'm guessing that you're not a gay black disabled Muslim women ?

Why, do you want an anecdote? I guess they're more interesting than actual statistical evidence from the whole population...

saucer

c'est_moi said:

I was very lucky to get my job in 1991. I trained as a teacher and got the one and only job that I was qualified for in my area. Unemployment rates were still high and professional jobs few and far between in the region. The house we bought was affordable because of the state it was in. We had to spend a lot of money fitting a new boiler, radiators, kitchen and bathroom to make it habitable - all done gradually over 7 years as and when we had the money to do so. It broke my heart to sell it at a loss, but had no choice as we had started a family by then.

There was no chance of getting a council house. They had been flogged off in the previous decade. The were some private rentals, but most were in students lets.

I am not saying that youngsters have it easy. I do worry about my daughter who is finding it very difficult to get a mortgage - and in fact will need a hand up from bank of mum and dad to be able to get together enough of a deposit. However, I will not stand there and be lectured by a 30 something colleague who knows nothing of the financial struggles I have had and who willfully chooses to do nothing to plan for their own financial future.

We’re largely agreed then. I just think that it’s harder for them in some ways. What you and I have (I assume) is a gilt edged db pension for life that allows us to consider early retirement. This is something that is almost unimaginable for younger generations. 

Bobziz

zagfles said:

Bobziz said:

zagfles said:

Bobziz said:

Workerdrone said:

Bobziz said:

Sewing division and fear is clearly useful for some. Be great if people dug into the evidence or perhaps lack of it before making broad generalisations. 

We'll it's a bit difficult to find actual evidence given how people keep their financial matters quite close to their chest (Apart from on forums like this), hence the purpose of the discussion. As an earlier poster put, its quite possible that the bitter complainers are just the minority who you find on comments sections. Personally I am worried about how my sister in law will take it. She's always been a wasteful spender, my brother in law works, she doesn't although there's no actual reason for it. Unfortunately he has close to zero pension so they will be in a bit of a pickle. She has a tendency to make family gatherings very awkward when she's in a mood.

Agree, it is difficult but that didn't stop you writing "It seems the majority of Britains are still content to bury their heads regarding retirement savings whilst at the same time splurging on the latest phones, subscriptions, frothy coffees, foreign holidays and eating out.". 

We all like to have opinions, myself included, I just wonder whether the world would be a better place if we spent a little more time looking at the evidence before we made them, particularly if they result in us viewing others negatively. 

Jealousy and resentment exists, but I'm conscious that we still seem to be far from having a society where all have equal opportunities. As a white middle class male, I feel privileged in that my opportunities have been fairly easy to come by. I've still had to make the most of them, but they were there in the first place. Others are not so lucky.

So, saving is easier for some than others, that seems clear. However, I suspect that there are also those that for various reasons do have the means to save and build a reasonable pension but do not. Martin is trying to deal with the ignorance aspect of this with the push to improve education. As parents and grandparents we can help here too. 

Once people have the knowledge and ability to save then in theory they should. However, I suspect that there will still be those that don't, and they may blame others for this as you say. I'm not sure there's a lot we can do about this other than maybe not fear them and reflect that their jealousy and animosity towards others may result from their own unhappiness. Hopefully they're few and far between !

Yes, people should definitely look at the actual evidence from studies of the whole population, rather than anecdotes (aka "lived experience") and extremely rare events, which grievance mongers continually use to convince us all that opportunity and outcomes in life are intricately linked to our identity in terms of race/gender/religion/sexuality/background etc.

That would indeed make the world a much better place.

I'm guessing that you're not a gay black disabled Muslim women ?

Why, do you want an anecdote? I guess they're more interesting than actual statistical evidence from the whole population...

Fire away with your evidence.