Court Claim for Old Milton Green Britannia parking unlawful camera

ricky_balboa

Hi,

I have received a court claim & aos for a parking fine at the end of 2019. The car park in question has been mentioned in this forum a few times (Old Milton Green) . It is a 20 min stay for free amongst some retail shops. I didn't notice any signs when we went entered the car park as i turned right into it and was concentrating on the traffic. We also didn't notice any signs going into Greggs and stayed 15 mins over time. I believe the fine has been wrongly issued as 1) I have received the extra £60 charge added to the fine 2) The exit photo shows my car leaving the car park and not stationary parked up, showing that i could be waiting for traffic to pass to exit the car park. 3) I am within the grace period, but to be honest i'm not sure how long this is? 4) The signs were not clear and visible as we never saw any on our visit. (i also have a video showing how you can drive into the car park and visit Greggs without seeing a sign). 5) The entrance camera did not have planning permission. Britannia have recently tried to have planning permission retrospectively issued but this was refused and they removed the camera. 
I have started my defence by using the template defence for unlawful extra charges added. I'm not sure how i should word the camera with no planning permission part?
Any advice of my case is gratefully received and i appreciate all the advice i have already gained by reading through the forum.

D_P_Dance

It is not a fine, please read the newbies.  Have you complained to your MP?

Fruitcake

It is not a fine.

Please tell us the issue date of the claim form and the date you did the AoS.

Are Britannia using a solicitor or doing this in house? 

What happened when you complained to the landowner/retail park management company/Greggs shop manager?

Get pics of the site and signage. Pay very particular attention to the name on the signs and the name on the claim form. There are two Britannias, and sometimes they get them mixed up. 

Lack of planning permission for cameras is a minor point, but should be mentioned anyway.
Do the PPC have advertising consent for the signs? Not having it is a criminal offence, but only the council can pursue it. Sadly most don't bother.
Complain to the council planning department if tyhe PPC doesn't have it, and include it as a separate point in your defence, but don't expect it to be a show stopper.

Lack of advertising consent is covered by paragraph 12 of the PoFA 2012.

You can't say you are within the grace period if you do not know what it is. There may be a site specific grace period otherwise the BPA CoP will tell you what the generic period is, but I doubt it will be as long as fifteen minutes.

D_P_Dance

Have you complained to your MP and Trading Standards?

ricky_balboa

I haven't complained to Trading Standards or my MP, will that help my case?
My issue date is 07/10 and i haven't completed my AoS yet.
Britannia are using BW Legal as solicitors and the signs in the car park state:- managed by Britannia Parking Group.
Where can i check on the PPC's advertising consent? and is it possible to find out the site specific grace period?
After reading your advice i guess my main defence is the extra £60 Britannia have added then?
thanks for your replies.

ricky_balboa

I have researched and found the planning application for the signs in the car park. They were granted in March 2019. Britannia Parking Limited were granted the consent and not Britannia Parking Group. They also applied for 4 signs on the road side of the car park for the spaces which face the road. The car park spaces which face the retail shops also have signs on pillars but no mention of these in the consent. After checking google street view these were added at a later date. I don't believe they were there when we parked at the car park in Dec 2019 as we did not see them.

Jenni_D

The extra £60 is not a defence to the claim, it is a defence point to limit the value of the claim. You will almost certainly have other defence points - see the template defence.

With a claim issue date of 07-Oct then there's no reason to not get the AoS done now. I'm sure @KeithP will be along shortly with his useful timeline info.

D_P_Dance

Have you seen these

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount for debt collection. Judges have dismissed an entire claim because of this. Read this and complain to your MP.

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

KeithP

ricky_balboa said:

My issue date is 07/10 and i haven't completed my AoS yet.

With a Claim Issue Date of 7th October, you have until Tuesday 26th October to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an AoS, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an AoS in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 9th November 2021 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Fruitcake

Don't get too bogged down with advertising consent. If the name on the signs does not match the name on the council planning approval then that needs only a line or two in your defence. 

Who issued the NTK and claim; Britannia Parking Group or Britannia Parking Limited? This must match the name on the signs. It is crucial that the company named on the signs at the site is the one bringing the claim. If not, then the company making the claim is a stranger to the contract and therefore you cannot be indebted to them.

Coupon-mad

This is a good issue to include in your defence as point #3 and 4 onwards (add to the numbering so every para has a number):

... have researched and found the planning application for the signs in the car park. They were granted in March 2019. Britannia Parking Limited were granted the consent and not Britannia Parking Group. They also applied for 4 signs on the road side of the car park for the spaces which face the road.

The car park spaces which face the retail shops also have signs on pillars but no mention of these in the consent. After checking google street view these were added at a later date. I don't believe they were there when we parked at the car park in Dec 2019 as we did not see them.

Except of course, change it sll to the third person, not 'I' or 'we'.

You should also quote the BPA on consideration and grave periods, from the version of the BPA CoP that applied on the date of parking.

Easy to find as the BPA website hosts them all.