CCJ to old address whilst partner was out of the country!!

Cunners316

Many thanks for the reply. 
It is an in person hearing yes and I will be accompyaning my wife as English is not her first langage. 
In terms of the case we today received an email from BW Legal listing £799 in costs they are looking to claim back from us is they win.
That, on top of the £255 already spent on the set aside, plus the £285 for the CCJ is making this a very finely balanced risk for us now. Part of me want to just pay the £285 and cancel the set aside whilst part of me wants to carry on due to the outright bullying of this company.

To me the facts are very clear, the ticket was not actioned for over 4 years and then rushed to CCJ stage during COVID. They didn't check addresses (they say nothing had been communicated in the last 4 years at all, true as we didn't know it was with them), and didn't send important docs recorded, signed for etc which, in my mind, should be a must. They then claim it is us at fault for not informing them my wife was out of the country (why would I when I had no idea they were involved) and should have done a post forwarding with Royal Mail (we moved approx 20 houses down the road and all our mail was brought down by the people who moved into our old address (they were in fact our old landlords).

The delay is an issue I know, yes I made a mistake SAR'ing the wrong people but they even messed that up, not replying with documents they did have within the month and still even now have only just released some docs. I at last have all the docs from the original parking company as well though so that is ok.

BW is not shown as claimant though they are on the WS as part of the case so I think we are ok there.

I'm just concerned with precedent. Even though we literally had no chance of applying for a set aside within the 28 day limit will a judge want to be the one allowing a set aside 8 months after the CCJ was put in place, even with these circumstances or will they just follow law and throw it out. 

We have read CPR 13.2 and 13.3 and understand the differences though I hope I am allowed to speak as my wife does not understand the legal side of the language all that well.

To me 13.2 does not apply though 13.3 may as I do feel we have a real prospect of defending the claim, if we get over the 'promptly' part. 

Evidence that we have moved will be in the form of tennancy agreement and council tax bill so we can prove that quite sufficiently, we were unable to send that with the claim but referenced it in the WS, is it worth sending and asking them to be attached to the file as BW have with their costs?

With all considered I do want to carry on as I do think they should be held for what they do and not be allowed to just CCJ people without ever speaking to them and also not create grossly inflated costs to scare people out of pursuing a set aside when they behave as they have. 

Any opinions greatfully accepted though.

Coupon-mad

You are spot on!  Carry on.

Did you know that BW Legal CAN'T have those additional costs unless the D acts unreasonably, such as not turning up to the hearing.  She's not going to do that so there is ZERO danger of those costs being awarded.  Applying to set aside a CCJ from a rogue parking firm when they failed to serve it to the right address (because they made no checks) is not unreasonable on her part!

Evidence that we have moved will be in the form of tennancy agreement and council tax bill so we can prove that quite sufficiently, we were unable to send that with the claim but referenced it in the WS, is it worth sending and asking them to be attached to the file as BW have with their costs?

Yes, the Defendant should do that today - URGENTLY - by email to the local court (attached to a signed and dated Supplementary Witness Statement) and always copy in BW Legal.

Cunners316

That makes it a lot easier to go through with the hearing, we can’t afford another £799 on top of it all!! 

I’ve emailed the receipt of residence change we did to the council when we moved house, pretty sure that will be evidence enough of our move (unless we like paying council tax for a house we don’t live in!) and cc’d in BW Legal as they did with their ‘costs’ email. 

Hopefully it’s a straight fight now and a judge who can see the issue for what it is. 

Coupon-mad

Hope the email had a covering signed & dated supplementary WS, or the evidence will be ignored.

Cunners316

**UPDATE**

Just got back in from the hearing. All a little bit scary for my wife as it was in an actual courtroom rather than a side room as expected. The judge was very reticent to allow me to speak (English is not my wifes' first language) but the claimants lawyer allowed it when asked.

After going through the appeal the judge settled on speaking about the actual ticket and if it was a genuine ticket, rather than the actual service of the claim.

After we had gone through that we spoke about our housing arrangements and dates we left addresses etc. It soon became apparent that BW Legal had not done any sort of address search and had just taken the address from the original ticket rather than check again (I realised this afterwards due to the judge asking if the DVLA had been told in 2017 that the car had been scrapped, it had) , as they would not have been able to search the vehicle and get a current address.

He also spoke at length about the amount of time passed between the ticket and the claim going in, 3 1/2 years, and was quite critical of that.

To be fair we were not, at this point, any the wiser as to which way he was going to go with it, he mentioned we had to have a possibility of defendding the claim for him to set aside and that hinged on the date issue in his mind.

As he began his summing up I was still 50/50 as to where it was going but it soon became apparent he was going to set aside the judgement, which he did. There was a provisor that we submit a defence to the original ticket within 14 days or have an agreement with the claimant in place before that time.

So in his words we are 'back to square one' in terms of the ticket but the CCJ has been set aside at this point!

So, a win for what we wanted I feel. Though as an aside my wife actually thought we had lost due to my face as we left the courtroom (I've got experience in courts and know to do or say nothing but thank the judge and leave!!) and also the fact I spoke to the claimants representative outside! It wasn't until we left the courthouse she realised we'd won and relaxed!!

Many thanks for all the help on here, we really could not have done it without the help and advice from all the contributors, especially @Coupon-mad who stood us up when we wobbled!!

So next, onto what we do next!!

Coupon-mad

Fantastic!  That's the CCJ gone; should be cleared this month off the credit record.  Well done.

Next, is using the template defence but don't follow ALL the 12 steps there because you won't be emailing it to the CCBC, it will go to the local court of course, and to BW Legal.

Daiapolon2021

hi here is the claimant WS https://www.dropbox.com/home/UKCPM?preview=Claimant+WS.pdf. I am only attaching materials relative to the Claim. No intro or exhibits. If they are needed I will add them. In point 41 they say I claimed to be the lessee but do not attach any proof for it. In point 43 they say there were paying spots nearby but there were no signals regarding this. In point 48 they say I did not require any additional into when in fact I did a DSAR. Any other points come up to you? Thanks!

Jenni_D

Why have you posted here rather than your own thread?

Daiapolon2021

too many open windows!

Coupon-mad

Cunners316 said:

**UPDATE**

Just got back in from the hearing. All a little bit scary for my wife as it was in an actual courtroom rather than a side room as expected. The judge was very reticent to allow me to speak (English is not my wifes' first language) but the claimants lawyer allowed it when asked.

After going through the appeal the judge settled on speaking about the actual ticket and if it was a genuine ticket, rather than the actual service of the claim.

After we had gone through that we spoke about our housing arrangements and dates we left addresses etc. It soon became apparent that BW Legal had not done any sort of address search and had just taken the address from the original ticket rather than check again (I realised this afterwards due to the judge asking if the DVLA had been told in 2017 that the car had been scrapped, it had) , as they would not have been able to search the vehicle and get a current address.

He also spoke at length about the amount of time passed between the ticket and the claim going in, 3 1/2 years, and was quite critical of that.

To be fair we were not, at this point, any the wiser as to which way he was going to go with it, he mentioned we had to have a possibility of defendding the claim for him to set aside and that hinged on the date issue in his mind.

As he began his summing up I was still 50/50 as to where it was going but it soon became apparent he was going to set aside the judgement, which he did. There was a provisor that we submit a defence to the original ticket within 14 days or have an agreement with the claimant in place before that time.

So in his words we are 'back to square one' in terms of the ticket but the CCJ has been set aside at this point!

So, a win for what we wanted I feel. Though as an aside my wife actually thought we had lost due to my face as we left the courtroom (I've got experience in courts and know to do or say nothing but thank the judge and leave!!) and also the fact I spoke to the claimants representative outside! It wasn't until we left the courthouse she realised we'd won and relaxed!!

Many thanks for all the help on here, we really could not have done it without the help and advice from all the contributors, especially @Coupon-mad who stood us up when we wobbled!!

So next, onto what we do next!!

What's happening re filing your defence, WS and evidence to kill off the PCN claim?