cryptocurrency and bitcoin

Malthusian

HunterBurgan said:

There are several investors on info-wars that keep recomending it

For those not familiar with this journal, InfoWars is an American website for anti-vaxx alt-right fruitloops. It is also a money-making machine for its owners - to quote the NYT via Wikipedia, "it is as much an online store that uses Mr. Jones's commentary to move merchandise as a media outlet".

Get-rich-quick schemes and conspiracy theorists have always had a large intersection. You're not poor because you're a loser, you're poor because the government is oppressing you with worthless money.

Zola.

Malthusian said:

HunterBurgan said:

There are several investors on info-wars that keep recomending it

For those not familiar with this journal, InfoWars is an American website for anti-vaxx alt-right fruitloops. It is also a money-making machine for its owners - to quote the NYT via Wikipedia, "it is as much an online store that uses Mr. Jones's commentary to move merchandise as a media outlet".

Get-rich-quick schemes and conspiracy theorists have always had a large intersection. You're not poor because you're a loser, you're poor because the government is oppressing you with worthless money.

I don't think it's fair to compare the millions of people who own bitcoin with the typical info wars idiots.

Also, its commonly known that Alex Jones was actually once given around 10,000 bitcoin by Max Keiser and lost them all / didn't care for them, so there's that. 

So he has effectively lost £ 451,397,291 today. 

Thrugelmir

Zola. said:

Malthusian said:

HunterBurgan said:

There are several investors on info-wars that keep recomending it

For those not familiar with this journal, InfoWars is an American website for anti-vaxx alt-right fruitloops. It is also a money-making machine for its owners - to quote the NYT via Wikipedia, "it is as much an online store that uses Mr. Jones's commentary to move merchandise as a media outlet".

Get-rich-quick schemes and conspiracy theorists have always had a large intersection. You're not poor because you're a loser, you're poor because the government is oppressing you with worthless money.

I don't think it's fair to compare the millions of people who own bitcoin with the typical info wars idiots.

Having a comprehensive and full understanding of the topic makes them somewhat similar. Comfort of being in a herd. 

Malthusian

Zola. said:

I don't think it's fair to compare the millions of people who own bitcoin with the typical info wars idiots.

Nor do I. But pointing out that there is a large intersection between them is entirely fair.

All revolutionary movements, left or right, are fundamentally get-rich-quick schemes as both amount to a fantasy that one day the revolution will come / number go up and you'll no longer be a loser.

Also, its commonly known that Alex Jones was actually once given around 10,000 bitcoin by Max Keiser and lost them all / didn't care for them, so there's that.

Which is probably for the best for all of us. If you don't like sharing a bed with fruitloops who think that Bitcoin will overthrow the Zionist banking conspiracy and make them rich, then it's a good thing one of them didn't actually become a semi-billionaire from it. Imagine how many of them would pile into Bitcoin if Alex Jones had made half a billion from it - and his wealth relied on keeping the price pumped rather than flogging nutritional supplements. You'd have to rename it BitKlan.

Zola.

Malthusian said:

Zola. said:

I don't think it's fair to compare the millions of people who own bitcoin with the typical info wars idiots.

Nor do I. But pointing out that there is a large intersection between them is entirely fair.

All revolutionary movements, left or right, are fundamentally get-rich-quick schemes as both amount to a fantasy that one day the revolution will come / number go up and you'll no longer be a loser.

Also, its commonly known that Alex Jones was actually once given around 10,000 bitcoin by Max Keiser and lost them all / didn't care for them, so there's that.

Which is probably for the best for all of us. If you don't like sharing a bed with fruitloops who think that Bitcoin will overthrow the Zionist banking conspiracy and make them rich, then it's a good thing one of them didn't actually become a semi-billionaire from it. Imagine how many of them would pile into Bitcoin if Alex Jones had made half a billion from it - and his wealth relied on keeping the price pumped rather than flogging nutritional supplements. You'd have to rename it BitKlan.

Most people first buy bitcoin thinking it's a get-rich scheme, then they go down the rabbit hole and learn about its true value proposition, banking the unbanked, becoming a sovereign individual, and taking the power out of the parasite organisations like western union. It is already beginning to change global finance. 

Curious to know where you think bitcoin will go long term. Can't quite tell if you think it's a load of nonsense or if you're on the fence. Do you have a position?

Linton

Zola. said:

Malthusian said:

Zola. said:

I don't think it's fair to compare the millions of people who own bitcoin with the typical info wars idiots.

Nor do I. But pointing out that there is a large intersection between them is entirely fair.

All revolutionary movements, left or right, are fundamentally get-rich-quick schemes as both amount to a fantasy that one day the revolution will come / number go up and you'll no longer be a loser.

Also, its commonly known that Alex Jones was actually once given around 10,000 bitcoin by Max Keiser and lost them all / didn't care for them, so there's that.

Which is probably for the best for all of us. If you don't like sharing a bed with fruitloops who think that Bitcoin will overthrow the Zionist banking conspiracy and make them rich, then it's a good thing one of them didn't actually become a semi-billionaire from it. Imagine how many of them would pile into Bitcoin if Alex Jones had made half a billion from it - and his wealth relied on keeping the price pumped rather than flogging nutritional supplements. You'd have to rename it BitKlan.

Most people first buy bitcoin thinking it's a get-rich scheme, then they go down the rabbit hole and learn about its true value proposition, banking the unbanked, becoming a sovereign individual, and taking the power out of the parasite organisations like western union. It is already beginning to change global finance. 

Curious to know where you think bitcoin will go long term. Can't quite tell if you think it's a load of nonsense or if you're on the fence. Do you have a position?

Since you asked.....

Major issues with Bitcoin...

1) It cannot both be a viable currency and a generator of wealth.  The price of goods in a currency must be stable in the short to medum  term.  Would you want to get paid in bitcoin if the amount of goods you could buy varied up and down significantly from one pay packet to the next?

2) If it was not believed to be a generator of wealth its price would collapse.  It can only continue to exist whilst there are more people wanting to buy it.

3) There is no "right" price for a Bitcoin.  If no-one want to buy it drops to zero.   There are no underlying assets. This is very different to shares in that the company issuing the share has a value for as long as the company is viable.  In the extreme if the price went too low someone could buy it out and sell all its assets.  So the only way a portfolio of shares could become valueless would be if all the companies n the world went bust.  If that happened you would have worse problems than the value of your investments.

4) For all our well being we must have a viable strong  government.  That requires enforceable payment of taxes.  Will this work with bitcoin?

5) To fully govern effectively there must be control of currency.  Governments can simply say that all taxes and payments for Government contracts are in the local currency.  That local currency could be based on blockchain, but it would be very unlikely to be one of the existing crvptos.

So IMHO it has no very long term future.  In the meantime buyers can continue to benefit just like members of a pyramid selling scheme.  But at some point it must collapse.

eskbanker

Linton said:
For all our well being we must have a viable strong  government.

There'll be a first time for everything....

RolandFlagg

Linton said:

Zola. said:

Malthusian said:

Zola. said:

I don't think it's fair to compare the millions of people who own bitcoin with the typical info wars idiots.

Nor do I. But pointing out that there is a large intersection between them is entirely fair.

All revolutionary movements, left or right, are fundamentally get-rich-quick schemes as both amount to a fantasy that one day the revolution will come / number go up and you'll no longer be a loser.

Also, its commonly known that Alex Jones was actually once given around 10,000 bitcoin by Max Keiser and lost them all / didn't care for them, so there's that.

Which is probably for the best for all of us. If you don't like sharing a bed with fruitloops who think that Bitcoin will overthrow the Zionist banking conspiracy and make them rich, then it's a good thing one of them didn't actually become a semi-billionaire from it. Imagine how many of them would pile into Bitcoin if Alex Jones had made half a billion from it - and his wealth relied on keeping the price pumped rather than flogging nutritional supplements. You'd have to rename it BitKlan.

Most people first buy bitcoin thinking it's a get-rich scheme, then they go down the rabbit hole and learn about its true value proposition, banking the unbanked, becoming a sovereign individual, and taking the power out of the parasite organisations like western union. It is already beginning to change global finance. 

Curious to know where you think bitcoin will go long term. Can't quite tell if you think it's a load of nonsense or if you're on the fence. Do you have a position?

Since you asked.....

Major issues with Bitcoin...

1) It cannot both be a viable currency and a generator of wealth.  The price of goods in a currency must be stable in the short to medum  term.  Would you want to get paid in bitcoin if the amount of goods you could buy varied up and down significantly from one pay packet to the next?

2) If it was not believed to be a generator of wealth its price would collapse.  It can only continue to exist whilst there are more people wanting to buy it.

3) There is no "right" price for a Bitcoin.  If no-one want to buy it drops to zero.   There are no underlying assets. This is very different to shares in that the company issuing the share has a value for as long as the company is viable.  In the extreme if the price went too low someone could buy it out and sell all its assets.  So the only way a portfolio of shares could become valueless would be if all the companies n the world went bust.  If that happened you would have worse problems than the value of your investments.

4) For all our well being we must have a viable strong  government.  That requires enforceable payment of taxes.  Will this work with bitcoin?

5) To fully govern effectively there must be control of currency.  Governments can simply say that all taxes and payments for Government contracts are in the local currency.  That local currency could be based on blockchain, but it would be very unlikely to be one of the existing crvptos.

So IMHO it has no very long term future.  In the meantime buyers can continue to benefit just like members of a pyramid selling scheme.  But at some point it must collapse.

People have been saying this for 11 years. And they have been wrong for 11 years.

RolandFlagg

Typical MSE Type:

BTC at $60: It's a scam!
BTC at $600: It's a ponzi scheme!
BTC at $6000: Tulip Mania!
BTC at $60,000: I'm interested now. I will do no research, but will put my money in.
BTC drops to $20,000: I knew it was a scam!



Real's going to change:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SohEf5dF45g

Zola.

Linton said:

Zola. said:

Malthusian said:

Zola. said:

I don't think it's fair to compare the millions of people who own bitcoin with the typical info wars idiots.

Nor do I. But pointing out that there is a large intersection between them is entirely fair.

All revolutionary movements, left or right, are fundamentally get-rich-quick schemes as both amount to a fantasy that one day the revolution will come / number go up and you'll no longer be a loser.

Also, its commonly known that Alex Jones was actually once given around 10,000 bitcoin by Max Keiser and lost them all / didn't care for them, so there's that.

Which is probably for the best for all of us. If you don't like sharing a bed with fruitloops who think that Bitcoin will overthrow the Zionist banking conspiracy and make them rich, then it's a good thing one of them didn't actually become a semi-billionaire from it. Imagine how many of them would pile into Bitcoin if Alex Jones had made half a billion from it - and his wealth relied on keeping the price pumped rather than flogging nutritional supplements. You'd have to rename it BitKlan.

Most people first buy bitcoin thinking it's a get-rich scheme, then they go down the rabbit hole and learn about its true value proposition, banking the unbanked, becoming a sovereign individual, and taking the power out of the parasite organisations like western union. It is already beginning to change global finance. 

Curious to know where you think bitcoin will go long term. Can't quite tell if you think it's a load of nonsense or if you're on the fence. Do you have a position?

Since you asked.....

Major issues with Bitcoin...

1) It cannot both be a viable currency and a generator of wealth.  The price of goods in a currency must be stable in the short to medum  term.  Would you want to get paid in bitcoin if the amount of goods you could buy varied up and down significantly from one pay packet to the next?

Why not? One of its aims is to be a better store of value, such as a better digital gold (a bitcoin is divisible up to 100 million pieces) It's still in price discovery, so its going to be volatile.. look at it on a logarithmic scale, I wish I was paid in bitcoin several years ago...

2) If it was not believed to be a generator of wealth its price would collapse.  It can only continue to exist whilst there are more people wanting to buy it.

All money is a belief system, when governments print too much money, belief in that money dies and you have hyperinflation... which is happening in many countries now. You cannot print more bitcoin which is what makes it attractive as an inflation hedge. 

3) There is no "right" price for a Bitcoin.  If no-one want to buy it drops to zero.   There are no underlying assets. This is very different to shares in that the company issuing the share has a value for as long as the company is viable.  In the extreme if the price went too low someone could buy it out and sell all its assets.  So the only way a portfolio of shares could become valueless would be if all the companies n the world went bust.  If that happened you would have worse problems than the value of your investments.

I dont disagree at all

4) For all our well being we must have a viable strong  government.  That requires enforceable payment of taxes.  Will this work with bitcoin?

All cryptocurrency exchanges require "know your customer" (government mandated), before you can buy any bitcoin from any of those businesses. Thats not to say you couldnt buy it direct from someone else, a bit like paying for a service in cash and the person being paid doesnt register it with HMRC...

5) To fully govern effectively there must be control of currency.  Governments can simply say that all taxes and payments for Government contracts are in the local currency.  That local currency could be based on blockchain, but it would be very unlikely to be one of the existing crvptos.

The temptation of governments to print money is too big to resist and thats why we have unprecendented debt levels which are ultimately unpayable. 

So IMHO it has no very long term future.  In the meantime buyers can continue to benefit just like members of a pyramid selling scheme.  But at some point it must collapse.

 .

It will be interesting to see...

Since you mentioned "pyramid scheme"
https://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/bitcoin-is-not-a-pyramid-scheme/