Caught by Police using a handheld speed gun

Car_54

sheramber said:

rigolith said:

sand_hun said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Does anyone know whether, when there is a Community Speedwatch Area, manned by volunteers with a "gun", can they actually issue speeding penalties (NIP), or just warning letters?  

They will have been writing down your number plate details and the make of your vehicle. At worst, you will receive a warning letter (and a telling off from your wife).

Yes, you can safely ignore them. They rarely have any clue how to properly operate the speed gun, and even on the very best days it's unreliable and likely to produce inaccurate readings.

Get yourself a dashcam with GPS feature that records your speed on the video. Then if you have any issues in future you can review the video to see if you were actually speeding, and then decide what to do.

Vehicles observed speeding will be sent a warning letter along with advice to help change their driving behaviour.

If my vehicle receives a letter I don't think its behaviour will change.

Jumblebumble

Manxman_in_exile said:

Jumblebumble said:

facade said:

It was probably a TruCam II.

If it was working, and he was speeding, he will have been caught.  They don't normally prosecute below the limit +10% + 2mph, and his car speedo will read over, so in a 60 say, if he was doing less than 70 on his speedo, he would be below the threshold.

This is unfortunately nonsensical speculation and scaremongering
I had a camera pointed at a car by a cop on a motorbike when I knew I was speeding in London a few months ago
After 16 days I rang the process office to be sure that there was no interest as it was not my car and i did not want the owner to have any grief and was told that Metropolitan Police policy is to stop cars if they are caught on handheld and they wish to prosecute and that the traffic officer was probably measuring average speeds

Did you ask him (or her) how an individual officer on a 'bike could possibly measure "average speeds"?  If they told you that I would be inclined to disbelieve everything else they said...

I asked nothing but if I were to hazard a guess the lady who I suspect knows her job and what the traffic police do  much better than you do meant that the police were monitoring to see if the location was one to be targeted for enforcement  or not depending on whether most drivers are driving below  the speed limit +2 +10%
The fact that I did not get a ticket despite being at least 15 % over of course only serves to suggest that she knew exactly what she was talking about.
Regardless I was happy not to be attending an SAC and the OP should not believe anyone who tells them they will for sure be getting a ticket just because they have had a speed gun pointed at them as the person opining this cannot possibly know.

sand_hun

Manxman_in_exile said:

I think you've misunderstood what rigolith said?  They weren't talking about trained police officers using laser guns, they were talking about untrained volunteers in a Community Speedwatch Area.  I doubt that anything would end up in court based on their evidence alone.

During speedwatch, volunteers are always accompanied by an Officer. As @Ectophile says the speed gun will have been calibrated. Whilst you could simply ignore the warning letter, a record of it will exist and the police won't look favorably on those who commit future offences.

Car_54

sand_hun said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I think you've misunderstood what rigolith said?  They weren't talking about trained police officers using laser guns, they were talking about untrained volunteers in a Community Speedwatch Area.  I doubt that anything would end up in court based on their evidence alone.

During speedwatch, volunteers are always accompanied by an Officer. As @Ectophile says the speed gun will have been calibrated. Whilst you could simply ignore the warning letter, a record of it will exist and the police won't look favorably on those who commit future offences.

And how will the police know who committed the offence?

[Deleted User]

ontheroad1970 said:

[Deleted User] said:

sand_hun said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Does anyone know whether, when there is a Community Speedwatch Area, manned by volunteers with a "gun", can they actually issue speeding penalties (NIP), or just warning letters?  

They will have been writing down your number plate details and the make of your vehicle. At worst, you will receive a warning letter (and a telling off from your wife).

Yes, you can safely ignore them. They rarely have any clue how to properly operate the speed gun, and even on the very best days it's unreliable and likely to produce inaccurate readings.

Get yourself a dashcam with GPS feature that records your speed on the video. Then if you have any issues in future you can review the video to see if you were actually speeding, and then decide what to do.

Again, as the GPS speed is not in real time, it is of very little use.

What do you think "real time" means?

Because GPS speed is real time, or at least as real time as the speed guns.

[Deleted User]

Ectophile said:

[Deleted User] said:

sand_hun said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Does anyone know whether, when there is a Community Speedwatch Area, manned by volunteers with a "gun", can they actually issue speeding penalties (NIP), or just warning letters?  

They will have been writing down your number plate details and the make of your vehicle. At worst, you will receive a warning letter (and a telling off from your wife).

Yes, you can safely ignore them. They rarely have any clue how to properly operate the speed gun, and even on the very best days it's unreliable and likely to produce inaccurate readings.

Get yourself a dashcam with GPS feature that records your speed on the video. Then if you have any issues in future you can review the video to see if you were actually speeding, and then decide what to do.

If it ends up in court, the police will be able to produce a training record for the officer who was using the gun, and a calibration certificate for the speed gun itself.

You will have a recording on a dashcam, which will come with no calibration information.

Which do you think the courts will accept?

The GPS data is compelling because it does not require calibration. It is the satellites which are calibrated, and if the calibration was off by even a tiny amount it would be a major news story as systems malfunctioned all over the place.

In any case, these were community "officers" and thus unlikely to be trained. Little more than human scarecrows. Or perhaps gathering some dubious data to justify traffic calming measures or something.

[Deleted User]

sand_hun said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I think you've misunderstood what rigolith said?  They weren't talking about trained police officers using laser guns, they were talking about untrained volunteers in a Community Speedwatch Area.  I doubt that anything would end up in court based on their evidence alone.

During speedwatch, volunteers are always accompanied by an Officer. As @Ectophile says the speed gun will have been calibrated. Whilst you could simply ignore the warning letter, a record of it will exist and the police won't look favorably on those who commit future offences.

Do the police every look favourably on someone who they think has committed an offense?

Car_54

[Deleted User] said:

Ectophile said:

[Deleted User] said:

sand_hun said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Does anyone know whether, when there is a Community Speedwatch Area, manned by volunteers with a "gun", can they actually issue speeding penalties (NIP), or just warning letters?  

They will have been writing down your number plate details and the make of your vehicle. At worst, you will receive a warning letter (and a telling off from your wife).

Yes, you can safely ignore them. They rarely have any clue how to properly operate the speed gun, and even on the very best days it's unreliable and likely to produce inaccurate readings.

Get yourself a dashcam with GPS feature that records your speed on the video. Then if you have any issues in future you can review the video to see if you were actually speeding, and then decide what to do.

If it ends up in court, the police will be able to produce a training record for the officer who was using the gun, and a calibration certificate for the speed gun itself.

You will have a recording on a dashcam, which will come with no calibration information.

Which do you think the courts will accept?

The GPS data is compelling because it does not require calibration. It is the satellites which are calibrated, and if the calibration was off by even a tiny amount it would be a major news story as systems malfunctioned all over the place.

The satellites may be calibrated, but they don’t calculate speed. That’s down to the satnav, which probably isn’t.

ontheroad1970

[Deleted User] said:

ontheroad1970 said:

[Deleted User] said:

sand_hun said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Does anyone know whether, when there is a Community Speedwatch Area, manned by volunteers with a "gun", can they actually issue speeding penalties (NIP), or just warning letters?  

They will have been writing down your number plate details and the make of your vehicle. At worst, you will receive a warning letter (and a telling off from your wife).

Yes, you can safely ignore them. They rarely have any clue how to properly operate the speed gun, and even on the very best days it's unreliable and likely to produce inaccurate readings.

Get yourself a dashcam with GPS feature that records your speed on the video. Then if you have any issues in future you can review the video to see if you were actually speeding, and then decide what to do.

Again, as the GPS speed is not in real time, it is of very little use.

What do you think "real time" means?

Because GPS speed is real time, or at least as real time as the speed guns.

There is a lag between the time the device reads the speed and it being relayed back to the device, unlike a speed gun.  Next time you use a TomTom pay attention to how long it takes to reflect the speed you're doing.  There is a lag.  Therefore it is not reliable especially when faced with a bill for thousands for expert witnesses.  Unless you are prepared to pay people's costs for them, of course.  

Jenni_D

[Deleted User] said:

ontheroad1970 said:

[Deleted User] said:

sand_hun said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Does anyone know whether, when there is a Community Speedwatch Area, manned by volunteers with a "gun", can they actually issue speeding penalties (NIP), or just warning letters?  

They will have been writing down your number plate details and the make of your vehicle. At worst, you will receive a warning letter (and a telling off from your wife).

Yes, you can safely ignore them. They rarely have any clue how to properly operate the speed gun, and even on the very best days it's unreliable and likely to produce inaccurate readings.

Get yourself a dashcam with GPS feature that records your speed on the video. Then if you have any issues in future you can review the video to see if you were actually speeding, and then decide what to do.

Again, as the GPS speed is not in real time, it is of very little use.

What do you think "real time" means?

Because GPS speed is real time, or at least as real time as the speed guns.

There's a delay for the (radio frequency) signals to bounce back from the satellites (plural) before the GPS location can be determined. And then at least two such "transactions" need to take place before a speed can be calculated. So the speed on the GPS will be at least a second old - probably more. A laser speed gun only requires the (light speed) signal to bounce from the gun to the vehicle, again probably at least twice, which will be much faster.

Also the gun has been calibrated and is type-approved for speed measuring. GPS satnav has not.

Does this matter in the real world? Probably not. Does this matter in the legal world? Absolutely.