Fixed price deal tariff being increased

worrywart_3

P-J-D_2 said:

I don't understand this "pre contract" talk. 

A contract is a contract.

Fixed unit rates and with dates - it's there in black and white.

Which was an error, when the seal was signed up to it said on the tarrif about the prices being below cap at a percentage below not fixed.

savers_united

P-J-D_2 said:

I don't understand this "pre contract" talk. 

A contract is a contract.

Fixed unit rates and with dates - it's there in black and white.

It does not work like that, a contract is agreed based on what you sign up to. 

Provided the detail was correct then you went into it with your eyes wide open. 

The grey area is if you signed up over the phone and had no vision of the tariff t&c, what was discussed, was the tariff made clear to you, then it would be your word unless you can get a recording of the call.

That's what I am trying to do for my parents as they signed up over the phone and confident they were not made clear it was a variable tariff. 

May I also ask on your bills what it states the product type is? It should say variable so that would also of informed you the type of tariff. 

P-J-D_2

savers_united said:

P-J-D_2 said:

I don't understand this "pre contract" talk. 

A contract is a contract.

Fixed unit rates and with dates - it's there in black and white.

It does not work like that, a contract is agreed based on what you sign up to. 

Provided the detail was correct then you went into it with your eyes wide open. 

The grey area is if you signed up over the phone and had no vision of the tariff t&c, what was discussed, was the tariff made clear to you, then it would be your word unless you can get a recording of the call.

IANAL but this is how I would think the law has it :

Unless they explicitly read out contract terms and ask you to confirm (verbal contract recorded - a dubious practice IMO) the conversation is an 'offer to tender.'

You discuss and agree to whatever (product is not usually not fixed and can be negotiated) - the binding contract is surely formed in the documentation which is sent out / emailed (they always ask you to check its correct)?

That then supersedes any discussion around product over the telephone.

I've never heard of this alleged "pre-contract" grey area and how would it work, because discrepancies will arise where the conversation varies from the paperwork issued. You can't agree to two different things, the paperwork surely supersedes any verbals as there you have it, clearly, in black and white. 

OP claims they weren't advised it was variable, if it was organised over the phone with a verbal agreement she could put in a SAR request to prove her case..

Any lawyers about?

Happy to be corrected 

[Deleted User]

Presumably, the supplier sent a Welcome email which covered not only such things as the tariff and the monthly payments,  but also had a link to the contract terms and conditions and the right to cancel?

Krzysj

Dolor said:

Presumably, the supplier sent a Welcome email which covered not only such things as the tariff and the monthly payments,  but also had a link to the contract terms and conditions and the right to cancel?

yes and this welcome letter stated fixed tariff to September 2023 and the about your tariff sections says
” About your tariff

You’ve selected our Octopus Price Promise tariff. This means that your energy bill will reflect the amount of energy you use each month, but the price you pay per unit is fixed. Like all our tariffs, it is online only.

Once your fixed term is up, we’ll move you to our cheapest standard tariff…. ”

then talks about 14 day cooling off period. To me it’s there black and white. Cue 14 day cooling off period and coming on supply on day 17 based into his information. 2 months later you’re told your unit price is increasing.

MWT

Krzysj said:

 To me it’s there black and white. Cue 14 day cooling off period and coming on supply on day 17 based into his information. 2 months later you’re told your unit price is increasing.

This is why we have been careful to distinguish between those who opted in via the website versus those who made the switch on the phone.

If you opted in from the product page on the website, or read about it there and then phoned in, you really have no basis to claim that this was anything other than a cap tracking variable tariff as it was clearly described in full and intricate detail.

If you were offered the tariff over the phone, or called in to ask for it after someone told you about it, it really depends on what exactly you were told during the call.

Perfectly plausible that the full details were not disclosed during the call in which case I understand the complaint and the confusion.

If you checked the tariff on the Octopus website or any other website showing tariff details it will have shown as a variable tariff, but I'm sure that there are people who didn't do that, hence there will be genuine complaints that they did not know it could go up...

Krzysj

MWT said:

Krzysj said:

 To me it’s there black and white. Cue 14 day cooling off period and coming on supply on day 17 based into his information. 2 months later you’re told your unit price is increasing.

This is why we have been careful to distinguish between those who opted in via the website versus those who made the switch on the phone.

If you opted in from the product page on the website, or read about it there and then phoned in, you really have no basis to claim that this was anything other than a cap tracking variable tariff as it was clearly described in full and intricate detail.

If you were offered the tariff over the phone, or called in to ask for it after someone told you about it, it really depends on what exactly you were told during the call.

Perfectly plausible that the full details were not disclosed during the call in which case I understand the complaint and the confusion.

If you checked the tariff on the Octopus website or any other website showing tariff details it will have shown as a variable tariff, but I'm sure that there are people who didn't do that, hence there will be genuine complaints that they did not know it could go up...

Was it described in full intricate detail? I’d be happy to see it if someone has screenshots.
I did check product detail and simply states the tariff name and fixed end date. No reference to it being variable and the first variable reference was on the first bill. 

Krzysj

Sorry should say my second sentence was with reference to checking tariff details on my online account after welcome pack was emailed. 

MWT

Krzysj said:

Sorry should say my second sentence was with reference to checking tariff details on my online account after welcome pack was emailed. 

Understood, and yes, that could have been more detailed, but if you go look at the other websites out there than compare tariffs like the one linked earlier in this thread they show it as a variable tariff.

I don't have screenshots of the original product page, but yes the detail was full, including the formula used and worked examples. If someone hit the button to sign up from that page then there is no excuse for misunderstanding.

From a phone call... a lot more room for confusion...

savers_united

If you took out any other product be it a mortgage, loan,service contract, insurance it would all be based on the information provided upfront when the contract was signed.
And this would work both ways, if you agreed on your insurance to a £250 excess and the final paperwork came through stating £300 excess they would need to honour the £250 excess you signed up to, they could not say the documents sent state £300 so bad luck.
But again if the insurance policy was completed over the phone they may argue the excess you agreed was £300, hence why they always ask you to check the paperwork is correct, if not you contact them and they would check the call.

So only those who signed up to this tariff over the phone would have any kind of case to pursue, provided they were given no up front vision of the tariff T&C and it was not made clear the tariff was in fact a variable for a fixed period of time. 

All other sign ups would of seen the tariff terms online and agreed to those regardless of what followed in confirmation mails / emails.