PCN Welcome Break

JanusDavies

Summary

Max free stay is 2h; I stayed for 2h 51 mins.

I was a genuine customer of the Welcome Break, spending several pounds on food in 2 separate visits over the time I stayed there and can prove this using credit card statement.

I have read the sticky and it's encouraging.

But before I proceed to follow the advice on this forum and try and get this extortionate charge dropped, I'd like to check two things:

1) What are my chances of success if I follow the advice on this forum to the letter?

2) What do I stand to lose if I'm unsuccessful unsuccessful? (In the case of actual, police-issued PenaltyCNs it can be pretty expensive!)

JanusDavies

Edit: PCN Amount: £100 (£60 if paid within 14 days)

I have until 22/10/21 for the discount amount. Or until 05/11/2021 for the full amount.

cambi0

It's not a police issued pcn i don't expect, just a parking scam company. Don't panic, don't pay, do this:

1. read the newbies section - take your time, read it a few times.

2. start by complaining to welcome break as an outraged customer

3. read this and laugh https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/847926/Top-lawyer-fined-for-taking-a-nap-in-his-car-has-won-court-case

JanusDavies

Yeah I know it's not a police-issued PCN, I was just saying I know those can be pricey!

I will start by complaining to Welcome Break. But I'm just wondering from the outset, do I have enough to be successful? Lots of people on here seem to have break downs, shorter overstays or other things like disabilities. Is my case likely to succeed simply by being a genuine customer and putting the right words in the letter?

cambi0

As a paying customer who is using their facilities id be amazed if that didn't nip it in the bud. Search the forum after reading the newbies guide and I'm sure you will find many similar to compare with.

Coupon-mad

Chances of success aversge across all PPCs around 99% if it goes to a court claim although ParkingEye do line their ducks up better than most others, so maybe 90% at court stage, based in what we see.

ParkingEye don't sue over every WB case.  Sometimes they farm some out to waste of time DCAs, which you must ignore.

You are unlikely to win early at appeal or at POPLA unless you are saying this is two separate visits where you left in between.

Some Welcome Break Facilities Managers will happily cancel for customers, so attack that option first a robustly.  You may be pleasantly surprised.   Every WB has its own webpage with email and phone number so it's easy to complain about this.  Keep it 'polite but annoyed, and unlikely to return'. 

As for your second Q, apart from a tad of added interest if they claim it, the only added cost risk is the court fees if you lose; £ 35 filing fee and £25 hearing fee (and a capped £50 legal fee, if the Judge awards that to a firm with their own legal team which is hit and miss).

If you follow our advice to the letter your risk is getting a claim for £185 instead of the current £100, and £25 hearing fee added on top if they don't discontinue or you don't settle.

Whilst ParkingEye are litigious, they are also pragmatic and prepared to talk about any settlement if you end up spooked.

No risk, really.

Certainly no CCJ risk as long as you followed all court deadlines and Directions if it comes to a claim (and don't move house without telling them within 6 years).  No letting any PPC retain an old address in their database.

JanusDavies

I'm glad I asked, thanks for the thorough responses. I will definitely pursue this then. Can't believe that even if it goes to court the worst case scenario is perhaps £210 including the charge!

So to summarize: I don't have enough to win at appeal or POPLA and my best bet is nip it in bud early by contacting Welcome Break South Mimms, but you're saying if it goes to court I am actually heavy favourite to the tune of 90%? If I've understood that correctly, things are looking better than this morning when I opened my post!

Coupon-mad

Yes that is right but as ParkingEye do line their ducks up well, if they take it all the way to a hearing you may struggle (more than most cases here) to win it, unless you were sleeping (as per the linked case with the QC who beat them) or if you were using the petrol station as well as parking.

You are allowed two hours free parking and that is set by the DFT.  A statutory minimum.

It is not 2 hrs 'on site' driving round and getting petrol/air/charging an EV.  It is a parking allowance set by Government and IMHO it is unfair that ANPR is used to calculate the entire time 'on site.'

Can't believe that even if it goes to court the worst case scenario is perhaps £210 including the charge!

Yes.  That really is the worst case scenario and that is how the small claims track works, designed not for parking firms but for small traders snd individuals who are owed money.

D_P_Dance

Whem you say two visits. do you mean you left the MSA and returned?  Hae you read the newbies?  Have you complained to your MP?

JanusDavies

No, I mean I sat in the car and ate the first snack purchased from Waitrose and slept a bit, then 90 mins or so later went back in and purchased more items of refreshment (same Waitrose) within the WB, ate them in the car and then drove off.

I'm drafting my email to the site manager at South Mimms WB.  Should I cc the South Mimms WB Waitrose or no?

D_P_Dance

So your use of the MSA was entirely proper.  Exactly what it is intended for.  I cannot see how a judge could find against yu.