Bespoke Sofa unsuitable

LynnSG

Grumpy_chap said:

Thanks Neil,

It rather looks as though the supplier either does not know the rules, or is being opportunistic trying to get around the rules with their own T's&C's (which cannot overrule the CCR, but some people may accept).

The OP appears to have paid some of the cost on CC.

So, I think the approach the OP should take is as follows:

1. Reject the sofa under the 14 days permitted by CCR
2. Get that sofa collected and back to the supplier (having carefully looked after it in the meantime)
3. (I think the OP will need to pay for the return carriage charges - I am not 100% on this.)
4. Receive back whatever refund the supplier gives (£3k - £680 = £2,320) as that money is then secure in the OP's bank account.
5. Formally complain to the supplier for the refund of the remaining balance, citing the fact that the refund received is not in accordance with the CCR and the shop T's&C's cannot override the legislation.
6. Allow due time for the remaining balance to be repaid or the supplier to formally refuse.
7. If the refund is received, case ends.  If the supplier refuses, submit S75 claim (not chargeback) via CC.

The OP will need to be careful that the supplier does not claim damages caused to the sofa while in the OP's care.

Thanks so much for that very comprehensive list of how to proceed. Really helps to think stage by stage what to do. We have blankets on sofa, but it's not been sat on as we are not currently in the house where sofa is.  There is a small area of damage (small indent /crush in one of the arms ) that we took several pictures of on the day it was delivered. It looked like something heavy was rested on it - probably during delivery. We thought it may "fill out" in time, but took a picture just in case it didn't. We are thinking of hiring a van to return the sofa - and we don't have original packaging as it was taped up foam wrapping, which would be impossible to recreate. We do have the external strong bags intact to use and can use bubble wrap for padding. 
Ideally, however, we hope they will collect the sofa 

Grumpy_chap

warby68 said:

Are you sure when OP has email confirmation of left hand order but right hand has been delivered? To me that is a major and clear error quite apart from what went on in the earlier telephone calls which I agree would be much less clear cut.

That does not seem to match what the OP has stated.  It all seems to hinge on a phone call when the request was to buy one the same as the picture on the website:

LynnSG said:

Yes he asked the salesman to go on to their website while they were on the phone and both looking at the same model of sofa, and he asked for that configuration. The sofa they ordered was a Left Hand facing, which we didn't query, when sent a confirmation email as we trusted that was the correct terminology. It seems we should have ordered a right hand facing. Our argument is  we didn't state left or right we asked for the configuration in the photo of sofa online 

powerful_Rogue said:

So you ordered left hand facing, email conformation says left hand facing and you received left hand facing.

What you actually needed was right hand facing. Is that correct?

LynnSG said:

Yes that's correct. The picture of the model we chose on the website shows a right hand facing  which is what we thought we ordered (by asking for THAT configuration) rather than asking for a left or right. The company, it transpires, ordered a left hand facing. I'm trying to post a link to the actual picture of sofa, but can't figure out how to on this site! It's my first time using it 

As I follow the thread, the OP ordered Left Hand and received Left Hand but should have ordered Right Hand (and thought they had from the phone call)

warby68

LynnSG said:

Bradden said:

Did they send any confirmation emails of what you had ordered? If not you may have a valid argument as you had nothing to check against for errors.

We've identified the exact issue now. We have confirmation email for a left hand facing sofa. But we've had a right hand facing one delivered. 
The confusion is the terminology changes whether the corner sofa is a chaise (1 open end) or 2 arm - 2 closed ends . On Denelli website, their buyers guide shows the left/ right configuration for a chaise sofa. When it's 2 arm, the longest side determines what facing it is. The order is correct (left facing)  but we gave been delivered a longer right sided sofa with 2 arms, which is right facing configuration 

It was this later post that made me wonder. It seems to say something different to the earlier ones and quite definitive @Grumpy_chap and was most recent before the debate about bespoke or not. Its hard to track without post numbers these days.

I wondered if it was missed by the experts on process (which I'm not)

LynnSG

warby68 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

warby68 said:

If this is the case then surely this is 100% the company's  error so why are they still treating it as your mistake/change of mind?

The order was correct, the delivery was wrong so completely outside your control if I'm reading this correctly.

I think a rejection based upon the company making an error is adding far more complexity than there needs to be.  No company is going to willing admit an error when they don't need to and the OP cannot prove the error unless the company shares the recorded phone call.

It now seems as though the order was not bespoke and, therefore, CCR right to return within 14 days applies.  Importantly, this can be for any reason, or none.  It's is probably the simpler legal approach than trying to argue over fault.

Are you sure when OP has email confirmation of left hand order but right hand has been delivered? To me that is a major and clear error quite apart from what went on in the earlier telephone calls which I agree would be much less clear cut.

The problem we have is Denelli are insisting the corner sofa we have IS A LEFT HANDED ONE!! ie, the order/ delivery is correct. The problem is "what is the definition of a left handed sofa?" Does it refer to the longest side - which we thought it did, and DFS guide says so. Or is it the short side? Which Denelli are saying it is. Denelli website doesn't show the sofa in left or right configurations, just a picture of the sofa in the configuration we wanted (longer left side) When we phoned thru the order, we asked for the configuration of a longer left side, as pictured on website. The salesman said it was a Left handed sofa, and he placed the order accordingly. Our delivery note shows a diagram of the configuration we were expecting- longer left side and denoted as a Left handed sofa. But the one we got was longer right side. 
It's so frustrating and we cannot prove the conversation, so it's best to return in the most straightforward way, I feel. I've honestly questioned my sanity over this whole mess - they kept moving the goal posts to suit their aim. Mo customer service at all - and we waited 9 months for this flipping thing! 

Grumpy_chap

warby68 said:

LynnSG said:

Bradden said:

Did they send any confirmation emails of what you had ordered? If not you may have a valid argument as you had nothing to check against for errors.

We've identified the exact issue now. We have confirmation email for a left hand facing sofa. But we've had a right hand facing one delivered. 
The confusion is the terminology changes whether the corner sofa is a chaise (1 open end) or 2 arm - 2 closed ends . On Denelli website, their buyers guide shows the left/ right configuration for a chaise sofa. When it's 2 arm, the longest side determines what facing it is. The order is correct (left facing)  but we gave been delivered a longer right sided sofa with 2 arms, which is right facing configuration 

It was this later post that made me wonder. It seems to say something different to the earlier ones and quite definitive @Grumpy_chap and was most recent before the debate about bespoke or not. Its hard to track without post numbers these days.

I wondered if it was missed by the experts on process (which I'm not)

Thanks @warby68
I'm not an expert on process either, which is why I think the simple "CCR return within 14 days for any (or no) reason" is the most straightforward.

As I see it, the sofa shown in the website is Right Hand:
https://www.denelli.co.uk/rocco-leather-recliner-corner-sofa-version-b.html

The Denelli guide would say it is Right Hand:

Alderbank said:

This is the guide on the Denelli Italia website. If you find it confusing perhaps your partner did make a mistake?

Arm, or no arm, I'd still say the sofa shown on the website is Right Hand.  @pinkshoes seems to agree:

pinkshoes said:

Ok, so the website shows this:

So going on their other description of right or left, then I make this a right facing one?!?!?


I think it is a fair assumption for customer to order by the exact one on the website, so I would still argue that this is THEIR mistake! I'd buy it off you as it's just what I'm looking for, but sadly I also would need a right hand one!

I would ask them to listen to a transcript of the phone call on <date> and state that at no point did you order either a left or right facing sofa, but only the sofa shown in the picture on the website.

After which the OP references a guide from DFS:

LynnSG said:

The problem is, the sofa diagram relates to a chaise type corner sofa. In the diagram you can see there's no end arm, so the chaise is a left facing corner sofa, when the open end is on the left. BUT.....when the sofa has 2 arms, then left or right facing refers to the longest side. So the photo shows a left facing sofa, which is what we ordered. But we've been delivered a longer right side (right facing) 
There's very clear info on DFS website regarding this - I've just seen it! We trekked around all the show rooms before 2nd lockdown to get clarity. We didn't rush the order at all - my partner is meticulous with detail. It's so frustrating as the sofa company still won't accept the mistake. 

There is no reason why the Italian Design Sofa place would use a guide from DFS to trump their own website:

LynnSG said:

I can't add links, as I'm a new member. You can see DFS's " buyers guide to corner sofas " online. Denelli Italia said yesterday "we use the same configuration as DFS" . Today they say "you didn't order from DFS " Arrggghh!!

Then, a few posts later, we get to "ordered left received right" with an acknowledgement about confusing terminology.

So, we revert to my suggestion it is simpler to just invoke CCR 14 days than get involved in all the tooing and froing about who said what, or who made a mistake, or there was no mistake etc.

JGB1955

Why are DFS being compared with Denelli?  Are they the same company?  Otherwise, DFS's interpretation has no bearing on Denelli's....unless there's something in black and white supporting their verbal claim that they use the same configuration as DFS.

LynnSG

JGB1955 said:

Why are DFS being compared with Denelli?  Are they the same company?  Otherwise, DFS's interpretation has no bearing on Denelli's....unless I've missed something.

On the phone a few says ago, Denelli said they "use standard sofa industry specifications, the same as DFS and other big sofa companies" 
So I thought I would look them up. Since they were said to be standard industry guidelines, I thought it was relevant - and logical. Why wouldn't a corner sofa with a left longest side be called a left handed sofa? 
Seems illogical to call a longer left side sofa a right handed one......surely?! 

Grumpy_chap

LynnSG said:

Seems illogical to call a longer left side sofa a right handed one......surely?! 

I don't think there is any logic to this.

Except, going by the photo on the Dunelli website plus the graphic, I'd say you want Right hand.

Maybe, the "long seat" or "extension" is on the right hand (as viewed from the front and not while sitting on the sofa).  

All we are doing is establishing that this is not simple and worrying about where the mistake happened is all extra detail that confuses the issue.  All you need to do is get the return initiated under CCR 14-days.  Do it in writing.

LynnSG

Grumpy_chap said:

LynnSG said:

Seems illogical to call a longer left side sofa a right handed one......surely?! 

I don't think there is any logic to this.

Except, going by the photo on the Dunelli website plus the graphic, I'd say you want Right hand.

Maybe, the "long seat" or "extension" is on the right hand (as viewed from the front and not while sitting on the sofa).  

All we are doing is establishing that this is not simple and worrying about where the mistake happened is all extra detail that confuses the issue.  All you need to do is get the return initiated under CCR 14-days.  Do it in writing.

We are composing email to Denelli right now. Is it the CCR 2013 act or Consumer Rights Act 2015 that's most relevant in this case? Or either ? Just want no ambiguity with this email if possible 

Grumpy_chap

LynnSG said:

We are composing email to Denelli right now. Is it the CCR 2013 act or Consumer Rights Act 2015 that's most relevant in this case? Or either ? Just want no ambiguity with this email if possible 

According to Which? it is the "Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013"
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations-ajWHC8m21cAk

FWIW, I'd keep the e-mail as short as possible, totally factual and avoid any references to mistakes or whatever.  Also avoid any references to steps that the company may try to follow that are contrary to the CCR.

You may even be able to find a template letter online.