Bespoke Sofa unsuitable

neilmcl

LynnSG said:

neilmcl said:

LynnSG said:

Update following request for refund under the right to return within 14 days, Denelli have offered a refund, less 25% restocking fee. This amounts to £680! From what I've read, restocking fee shouldn't be applicable to online purchases, which I have told the company. I have applied to my credit card company for a refund. Not sure if I can claim for the deposit paid on debit card. I'm considering getting Trading standards involved, as I'm sure their order processes are very misleading and inconsistent. Also the restocking fee seems illegal. What a mess! 

When, exactly, was the sofa delivered?

Last Sunday, 10th October
We contacted company following day 

In that case, you're OK the CCRs apply and you are entitled to a full refund, no restocking fees allowed. They can charge you for the return delivery but only if specified in their T&Cs.

Just one clarification though; your original post says it was bespoke and then you gon to say it was ordered as one from the website. Which is it; a standard option from their website or a bespoke item made to your specifications?

neilmcl

From their T&Cs:

"

9. Our refunds policy:

9.1. When you return a Product to us because you have cancelled the Contract within the statutory fourteen-day cooling-off period (see clause 4.2 above), once the Product is back with us and has been QC checked, we will process the refund due to you as soon as possible and, in any case, within 14 days of the day on which we receive the Product back from you or, if earlier, confirmation of return. In such a case, we will refund the price of the Product, excluding the cost of delivery of the Product and any re-stocking fee that may apply. However, you will be responsible for the cost of returning the Product to us or us collecting it from you. We are happy to arrange a collection for you where possible, and we shall discuss a collection charge at the time of enquiry accordingly.

"

Both of which are unlawful under the terms of the CCRs.

Grumpy_chap

Thanks Neil,

It rather looks as though the supplier either does not know the rules, or is being opportunistic trying to get around the rules with their own T's&C's (which cannot overrule the CCR, but some people may accept).

The OP appears to have paid some of the cost on CC.

So, I think the approach the OP should take is as follows:

1. Reject the sofa under the 14 days permitted by CCR
2. Get that sofa collected and back to the supplier (having carefully looked after it in the meantime)
3. (I think the OP will need to pay for the return carriage charges - I am not 100% on this.)
4. Receive back whatever refund the supplier gives (£3k - £680 = £2,320) as that money is then secure in the OP's bank account.
5. Formally complain to the supplier for the refund of the remaining balance, citing the fact that the refund received is not in accordance with the CCR and the shop T's&C's cannot override the legislation.
6. Allow due time for the remaining balance to be repaid or the supplier to formally refuse.
7. If the refund is received, case ends.  If the supplier refuses, submit S75 claim (not chargeback) via CC.

The OP will need to be careful that the supplier does not claim damages caused to the sofa while in the OP's care.

LynnSG

neilmcl said:

LynnSG said:

neilmcl said:

LynnSG said:

Update following request for refund under the right to return within 14 days, Denelli have offered a refund, less 25% restocking fee. This amounts to £680! From what I've read, restocking fee shouldn't be applicable to online purchases, which I have told the company. I have applied to my credit card company for a refund. Not sure if I can claim for the deposit paid on debit card. I'm considering getting Trading standards involved, as I'm sure their order processes are very misleading and inconsistent. Also the restocking fee seems illegal. What a mess! 

When, exactly, was the sofa delivered?

Last Sunday, 10th October
We contacted company following day 

In that case, you're OK the CCRs apply and you are entitled to a full refund, no restocking fees allowed. They can charge you for the return delivery but only if specified in their T&Cs.

Just one clarification though; your original post says it was bespoke and then you gon to say it was ordered as one from the website. Which is it; a standard option from their website or a bespoke item made to your specifications?

It wasn't bespoke - I misunderstood the definition. It was made to order from a choice of several specifications. And we ordered from the website, over the phone. 
 Their terms and conditions re returns states "they may be liable for a restocking fee" doesn't specify amount or what conditions decide this. We were told by email yesterday it's 25% - over £600

Grumpy_chap

neilmcl said:

Just one clarification though; your original post says it was bespoke and then you gon to say it was ordered as one from the website. Which is it; a standard option from their website or a bespoke item made to your specifications?

Hi Neil,
Thanks for that observation.
The OP changed their assessment based upon my comment higher up-thread (extract follows):

Grumpy_chap said:

The exceptions to the return via CCR include "tailor made or personalised items".  However, I am not convinced that the sofa falls into this category.  The OP has simply selected from drop down menus on the website:

• Left or right handed
• With or without recliner
• Choice of fabric from standard list

The selected sofa is "made to order" but not "bespoke" as I understand it.  If the sofa is "made to order", then I understand the off-premises return rules still apply.  

I am fairly certain the OP's sofa is simply one of the options from the website and not "bespoke" made to the OP's specifications.  On that basis, the 14-days apply as per CCR.
If you have any view that is contrary to this interpretation, then that is welcome as the key to the OP's rights do hinge on whether or not the sofa is "bespoke".

I still remain of the view that the OP was simply using the incorrect term in their title of the thread - possibly having been led to use the term "bespoke" by either the supplier trying to wriggle out of their obligations, or at the sales stage as a "marketing" term used to justify the price-point...

warby68

LynnSG said:

Bradden said:

Did they send any confirmation emails of what you had ordered? If not you may have a valid argument as you had nothing to check against for errors.

We've identified the exact issue now. We have confirmation email for a left hand facing sofa. But we've had a right hand facing one delivered. 
The confusion is the terminology changes whether the corner sofa is a chaise (1 open end) or 2 arm - 2 closed ends . On Denelli website, their buyers guide shows the left/ right configuration for a chaise sofa. When it's 2 arm, the longest side determines what facing it is. The order is correct (left facing)  but we gave been delivered a longer right sided sofa with 2 arms, which is right facing configuration 

If this is the case then surely this is 100% the company's  error so why are they still treating it as your mistake/change of mind?

The order was correct, the delivery was wrong so completely outside your control if I'm reading this correctly.

Grumpy_chap

warby68 said:

If this is the case then surely this is 100% the company's  error so why are they still treating it as your mistake/change of mind?

The order was correct, the delivery was wrong so completely outside your control if I'm reading this correctly.

I think a rejection based upon the company making an error is adding far more complexity than there needs to be.  No company is going to willing admit an error when they don't need to and the OP cannot prove the error unless the company shares the recorded phone call.

It now seems as though the order was not bespoke and, therefore, CCR right to return within 14 days applies.  Importantly, this can be for any reason, or none.  It's is probably the simpler legal approach than trying to argue over fault.

LynnSG

Grumpy_chap said:

neilmcl said:

Just one clarification though; your original post says it was bespoke and then you gon to say it was ordered as one from the website. Which is it; a standard option from their website or a bespoke item made to your specifications?

Hi Neil,
Thanks for that observation.
The OP changed their assessment based upon my comment higher up-thread (extract follows):

Grumpy_chap said:

The exceptions to the return via CCR include "tailor made or personalised items".  However, I am not convinced that the sofa falls into this category.  The OP has simply selected from drop down menus on the website:

• Left or right handed
• With or without recliner
• Choice of fabric from standard list

The selected sofa is "made to order" but not "bespoke" as I understand it.  If the sofa is "made to order", then I understand the off-premises return rules still apply.  

I am fairly certain the OP's sofa is simply one of the options from the website and not "bespoke" made to the OP's specifications.  On that basis, the 14-days apply as per CCR.
If you have any view that is contrary to this interpretation, then that is welcome as the key to the OP's rights do hinge on whether or not the sofa is "bespoke".

I still remain of the view that the OP was simply using the incorrect term in their title of the thread - possibly having been led to use the term "bespoke" by either the supplier trying to wriggle out of their obligations, or at the sales stage as a "marketing" term used to justify the price-point...

Thanks so much Neil and "grumpy chap"! I'm sure bespoke was in their sales speil ! 

robatwork

Just an aside.

I ordered a Denelli sofa years ago. After a couple of years the very thin white leather surface started coming away in a couple of patches revealing a darker layer below. Given its relatively light use I asked the company if they could do anything about it - I didn't expect a replacement but perhaps an inspection and them to patch the relevant sections - the leather is in squares so could be patched. They just told me to talk to "Homeserve" who would repair it - at a cost. I could have done that myself anyway.

So although their sofas do look fantastic and much more modern than the DFS type sheds, it's a firm "could do better" on customer service. 

warby68

Grumpy_chap said:

warby68 said:

If this is the case then surely this is 100% the company's  error so why are they still treating it as your mistake/change of mind?

The order was correct, the delivery was wrong so completely outside your control if I'm reading this correctly.

I think a rejection based upon the company making an error is adding far more complexity than there needs to be.  No company is going to willing admit an error when they don't need to and the OP cannot prove the error unless the company shares the recorded phone call.

It now seems as though the order was not bespoke and, therefore, CCR right to return within 14 days applies.  Importantly, this can be for any reason, or none.  It's is probably the simpler legal approach than trying to argue over fault.

Are you sure when OP has email confirmation of left hand order but right hand has been delivered? To me that is a major and clear error quite apart from what went on in the earlier telephone calls which I agree would be much less clear cut.