Moral dilemma

Ultrasonic

A question I don't know the answer to but which seems relevant is this. If the meter truly hasn't recorded any usage for an extended period of time, will the energy company be entitled to bill on the basis of what they think is a reasonable estimate for the same period? Or will there be no charge? 

MWT

Ultrasonic said:

... will the energy company be entitled to bill on the basis of what they think is a reasonable estimate for the same period? Or will there be no charge? 

There have been plenty of other cases where for one reason or another it was not possible to use actual consumption figures, in those cases the Ombudsman has usually ruled that an estimated figure should be used, usually based on the known consumption for a previous period or based on subsequent actual consumption.

wittynamegoeshere

MWT said:

There is no 'moral dilemma' here though, that is a set-up for a false debate, it really doesn't even qualify as 'moral relativism'

You should pay for what you consume and do what you need to do to make sure that happens if the supplier has misunderstood the problem.

Everything else is just a debate about 'can I get away without paying' or 'can I use this situation to my advantage'...

So let's not pretend that there is actually a 'dilemma' here to be agonised over

What would you like them to do - turn up at your her supplier's head office waving fistfuls of £20 notes in their faces?

By the sounds of it they've given more than enough of their time and effort to try and help them to take their money.

Ultrasonic

MWT said:

Ultrasonic said:

... will the energy company be entitled to bill on the basis of what they think is a reasonable estimate for the same period? Or will there be no charge? 

There have been plenty of other cases where for one reason or another it was not possible to use actual consumption figures, in those cases the Ombudsman has usually ruled that an estimated figure should be used, usually based on the known consumption for a previous period or based on subsequent actual consumption.

Given this, an incentive I'd personally have for pursuing getting this resolved would be the liklihood of being charged for more than I'd actually used...

wittynamegoeshere

Very unlikely.  I'm sure there's an ombudsman or complaints process you can use if they were to randomly decide you need to pay them ten squillion or whatever.  If they were to estimate it would be more likely to be on the low side, to avoid legal consequences for them.

I'm surprised they haven't noticed though.  I know someone whose house was all-electric with the exception of a gas hob.  They kept getting their meter repeatedly checked, as their gas supplier kept flagging up that their usage was extremely low.  If they're continually getting zero readings then you'd think this would trigger some kind of process.  Although it's possible that their computer system just identifies it as an empty house, perhaps zero is less alarming than a low amount.

Ultrasonic

wittynamegoeshere said:

Very unlikely.  I'm sure there's an ombudsman or complaints process you can use if they were to randomly decide you need to pay them ten squillion or whatever.  If they were to estimate it would be more likely to be on the low side, to avoid legal consequences for them.

The lower someone's actual usage, the more likely they will end up being overcharged. Speaking for myself (as I did above), I'd be surprised if I wasn't overcharged on the basis of an estimate. On the other hand a heavy user would probably be likely to be undercharged of course.

wittynamegoeshere

I don't think Ali60 has moved house, the trouble started when they had a meter change.  So their energy company should have a good idea of their previous usage.  If they've moved supplier then they can let their current supplier have a guess, if it's low then agree it(!), if it's high then send them a wad of bills from a previous supplier showing that it needs to be reduced.

No need to worry at all, provided that there's good evidence kept safely showing that reasonable effort was made to tell them that the meter was faulty.

MWT

Always interesting to see how much uncertainty people are willing to tolerate in their lives...

For me, there is no dilemma, I keep on going with the emails/phone calls until it is properly resolved, there isn't a point where I shrug my shoulders and just let the problem run on unresolved.

In this case it should just take an email to smart@octopus.energy with a couple of photos and the problem should be resolved, if it isn't then you escalate it to Greg, the CEO, and it will get sorted.

Streaky_Bacon

Even if the OP's meter is not reading at all (I don't think they have said that is the case) they are not going to get suddenly get a huge, massively over-estimated bill.

The most that would happen is that a working meter would be installed, and then they would have to provide readings over a period of time that could be used to create a proper estimate, and then backbill that over a maximum period of 12 months.

More likely the supplier would write it off, especially as the OP could show they had raised it.

Remember also, that the Ombudsman has no power to enforce anything with regards to the consumer. The supplier would have to take the customer to court, admit that the meter wasn't working, that the customer told them on more than one occasion, they did nothing about it, and now they would like paying for a bill they have just made up.

Good luck with that.

There is a moral issue here though, because do suppliers always go above and beyond to make sure that every penny is returned to customers. I had Scottish Power, send a dedicated team out to find me in my remote mountain hideout once, so give me back my 20p over payment. On second thoughts, I misremembered that story. What actually happened was that they sent me a brand new bill, two years after I left my property, told me that it was the original bill that had been sent (even though I had a copy of that), told me that the backbilling rules didn't apply to closed accounts, refused to stop the debt collection letters, and then made me go all the way to the ombudsman before it was sorted out.

wittynamegoeshere

The sort of amount we're talking about will be about the same as "Greg" makes in his tea break.  Just not worth worrying about.