Non disclosure of property defects - Sound Proofing and drainage issues

TripleH

Not relevant here, but we always choose the smallest bedroom that will fit our bed in as our bedroom. We only sleep in there whilst other rooms have a dual purpose so makes sense for them to be bigger.

TBagpuss

I'm not sure that it is something they needed to disclose - it sounds as though the issue was with poor sound insulation, not a complaint against the neighbour, and that they took steps to rectify it. It's not clear from your description whether they complained about the neighbour, or whether they simply needed access to her home to get the rectification work assessed / completed.

Something may have caused tension without being at the level of a complaint or dispute, and since they now know that the problem is with the construction of the house not with the neighbour's behaviour then equally there's no reason to think that there would be a dispute in the future.

That said, you're the ones who saw the forms they completed and who have spoken to the neighbour and know what  she said - if she did see it as a complaint / dispute and they didn't declare it then you can talk to your solicitor about what options you have, but I suspect (and I may be wrong, I am not an expert!) that as the issue would be whether they should have declared it as a dispute, if you are now on good terms with the neighbour then it's unlikely that you would be seen as having suffered any loss  

ToasterScheme

It's more that there clearly has been an issue and work has been carried out but nothing provided to us regarding that work or the issue, especially as it doesn't appear fully rectified. Our neighbour also seemed shocked that we knew nothing about it as she implied it was a pretty big deal. She also has said that we are not supposed to hang anything on the party wall as this will damage the soundproofing. Surely this is something that should have been mentioned on the TA6 form, especially if they have contacted the council regarding sound problems, had people out to measure the sound and building work done on the property as a result? 

As mentioned above it says: "Have there been any disputes or complaints regarding this property or a property nearby? If Yes, please give details." Whilst rather open surely this does count as a complaint as it resulted in the properties having to have work. 

Still not totally clear cut as a "complaint" in my view.

All of this could have been jointly done as a mutually agreed job by both neighbours in the interests of improving both their houses. Even if it was "a big deal" it could have been done amicably.

Of course you would contact the council - no one else is going to come out and measure noise levels for free. It's unclear whether the council actually ordered any work or if they merely made suggestions (or not).

I concede when you mention "tension" that the situation starts to feel more like a dispute.

[Just thinking through some counter-arguments you might expect if you decide to pursue this further, that's all]

NameUnavailable

The vendor could/would probably say that the complaint had been resolved since they spoke to the neighbours and remedial work was carried out to fix the problem.

They can choose to sleep in the kitchen if they wanted to, maybe they just preferred the smaller bedroom?

As for the drainage, flash floods can happen and it's something that should have been picked up in the conveyancing process.

All of that said, we see a lot of threads on here about disclosure (or non disclosure) of complaints on TA6 forms but I have yet to see any where somebody has taken action after a purchase, so if you do proceed to sue the vendor please let us know how things develop.

warwick2001

laurajanelolly said:

mattyprice4004 said:

It doesn't sound like something serious enough to go down on a TA6 as a dispute - if a neighbour complained I was a little noisy at times I wouldn't put it down either. 
Drains are also a non-issue, as long as they work correctly during 'normal' weather I'd say that's good enough. 

You bought a 60 year old house, if you want a new house with a warranty then buy a new-build. 
Unfortunately older stuff (including houses) usually comes with an issue or two. 

Some people are also more sensitive to noise than others - I had to buy detached and lower my expectations in terms of space as I'm quite intolerant of neighbour noise.

It's not that we expect no noise at all in a semi detached older property. We previously lived in a 1970's terrace house where we could hear our neighbours although it does seem much more prominent in this house. I also appreciate people will have different sensitivity to noise. Generally we are ok with it but there are times when it's much louder and disrupting.  

It's more that there clearly has been an issue and work has been carried out but nothing provided to us regarding that work or the issue, especially as it doesn't appear fully rectified. Our neighbour also seemed shocked that we knew nothing about it as she implied it was a pretty big deal. She also has said that we are not supposed to hang anything on the party wall as this will damage the soundproofing. Surely this is something that should have been mentioned on the TA6 form, especially if they have contacted the council regarding sound problems, had people out to measure the sound and building work done on the property as a result? 

As mentioned above it says: "Have there been any disputes or complaints regarding this property or a property nearby? If Yes, please give details." Whilst rather open surely this does count as a complaint as it resulted in the properties having to have work. 

The drain issues is slightly separate as we have also discovered our solicitors didn't pick up on an indemnity insurance policy that had been taken out at some point ( not sure if it was Southern Water or a previous owner) regarding flooding from overloaded public sewers.   

I suspect, even if you managed to speak to the vendors you bought from, the conversation would go pretty much like this:

You: You knew it was noisy and put in soundproofing
Them: Nah, wasn't that bad. We just put that stuff in and then moved to the back bedroom, and all was well. We're just incredibly light sleepers. I didn't consider it a complaint cos we dealt with it
You: Well, that's not really true tho is it
Them: Prove it.......

Likewise with the flooding issue, they could just respond saying "Yeah, got a bit wet in torrential rain, but not like a flood or owt...."

And that would be your stumbling block. You would have to prove to a court that they lied on the form, and they could counter-argue they didn't consider it a complaint, more of a mild disturbance, solved by their actions. Unless you could find a complaint to the council or such-like (and the paperwork documenting said complaint), its most likely your word against theirs. A court would decide which was the most likely, but I wouldn't be too confident you'd win. Although the TA6 forms are pretty self-explanatory, when the answers are challenged, its incredibly difficult to prove a lie within the form.

For the record, I believe they totally knew it was an issue (and more than likely complained about it), and they didn't reveal it on the TA6 as they didn't want to risk the sale of the house. Your options? Try the court route and see what happens (and expect/risk being disappointed), or move on and deal with the problems yourself any way you can.

Good luck 

GDB2222

user1977 said:

UnsilentMinority said:

MaryNB said:

mattyprice4004 said:

It doesn't sound like something serious enough to go down on a TA6 as a dispute - if a neighbour complained I was a little noisy at times I wouldn't put it down either. 
Drains are also a non-issue, as long as they work correctly during 'normal' weather I'd say that's good enough. 

You bought a 60 year old house, if you want a new house with a warranty then buy a new-build. 
Unfortunately older stuff (including houses) usually comes with an issue or two. 

Some people are also more sensitive to noise than others - I had to buy detached and lower my expectations in terms of space as I'm quite intolerant of neighbour noise.

Given the seller appeared to have noise consultants out, the neighbour had to have builders in to mitigate the issue and it caused tension between them I would say that it would very difficult to argue that there was no complaint about a nearby property. Whether they are over sensitive to noise or not doesn't change the fact that it appeared to be a fairly significant issue between the neighbours. The question is very open - have there been any disputes or complaints and the neighbour very much confirmed this. If they were still sleeping in the smaller room at the time of the viewing it would indicate that the issue wasn't resolved. 

Only if the complaint goes down the legal/written route

No, that's not what the question asks. In fact it's not even restricted to written complaints, or complaints which have actually been made - it includes things which you know are likely to lead to a complaint.

Quite! To be precise, there are two questions:

• Have there been any disputes or complaints regarding this property or a property nearby?

• Is the seller aware of anything which might lead to a dispute about the property or a property nearby?

The second question is rather vague, and a sensible seller might not wish to answer with a simple yes or no. However, if the seller in this case simply ticked the No box for both questions, then he may well have a problem.

Thrugelmir

If you are sensitive to noise. Speak to a builder and see what can be done to improve the sound insulation on your side of the property. The property was build sixty to seventy years ago and post war building materials were in short supply. 

Reginald74

Another factor: take any action on this, including getting in contact with them, and it becomes something you will need to declare when you sell...

doodling

Hi,

To play devil's advocate a little, some potential answers from your vendors if you pursue this:

GDB2222 said:

user1977 said:

UnsilentMinority said:

MaryNB said:

mattyprice4004 said:

It doesn't sound like something serious enough to go down on a TA6 as a dispute - if a neighbour complained I was a little noisy at times I wouldn't put it down either. 
Drains are also a non-issue, as long as they work correctly during 'normal' weather I'd say that's good enough. 

You bought a 60 year old house, if you want a new house with a warranty then buy a new-build. 
Unfortunately older stuff (including houses) usually comes with an issue or two. 

Some people are also more sensitive to noise than others - I had to buy detached and lower my expectations in terms of space as I'm quite intolerant of neighbour noise.

Given the seller appeared to have noise consultants out, the neighbour had to have builders in to mitigate the issue and it caused tension between them I would say that it would very difficult to argue that there was no complaint about a nearby property. Whether they are over sensitive to noise or not doesn't change the fact that it appeared to be a fairly significant issue between the neighbours. The question is very open - have there been any disputes or complaints and the neighbour very much confirmed this. If they were still sleeping in the smaller room at the time of the viewing it would indicate that the issue wasn't resolved. 

Only if the complaint goes down the legal/written route

No, that's not what the question asks. In fact it's not even restricted to written complaints, or complaints which have actually been made - it includes things which you know are likely to lead to a complaint.

Quite! To be precise, there are two questions:

• Have there been any disputes or complaints regarding this property or a property nearby?

No, there have been no disputes or complaints.  There was more noise from next door than I anticipated when I moved in but the neighbours and I worked together to resolve the issue. At no point were there any disputes or complaints between the neighbour and myself.

• Is the seller aware of anything which might lead to a dispute about the property or a property nearby?

No. As noted above, there was initially some noise from next door but following the work agreed with the neighbour, the issue was resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

You would need to convince a court that what I have written in italics is untrue to make progress with this.

The argument from the vendor will be that this is exactly the same as them, for example, noting to a neighbour that the shared drive is getting a bit tatty and agreeing with the neighbour that they will jointly fund a layer of tarmac.  That isn't a dispute or complaint, it is joint property maintenance / enhancement.

Of course, if the neighbour tells a different story then maybe that evidence would be compelling?

sheramber

Presumably any noise can travel both ways.

Does your neighbour complain about noise in her house?