Claim Form BW Legal

Guidance1

Coupon-mad said:

They don't like us much.  I am not expecting Christmas cards this year from the industry (not that I ever did)!

Good afternoon both, apologies for the delayed response i was waiting to see what their witness statement said. I am little annoyed at the wording on the hearing letter "Each party must deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than 23rd February 2022" yet i received it today. Have i missed something?

As i sent them my witness statement early they have commented on every section, most of which is rubbish that i could have defended in my witness statement. Although they have raised that the vehicle has parked in that car park before and therefore must have known the location code! even though it was at least 10 months earlier.

Coupon-mad

 "Each party must deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than 23rd February 2022" yet i received it today. 

Have i missed something?

No, they missed something - a mandatory Court Order deadline that says 'must'!

They are a serial litigant, legally represented and have not applied for relief from sanctions (if at the hearing it turns out they have, you must object').

Was it signed after the deadline? 

A very late WS and evidence is 'unreasonable conduct' and gained them the advantage of seeing yours first and commenting on everything.

You can and should ask the Judge first thing at the hearing (before their rep starts to speak) to please strike out all their late evidence and the whole WS and disallow the Claimant from being heard at all, as they have ignored a court order and forfeited the right to present witness evidence.

Although they have raised that the vehicle has parked in that car park before and therefore must have known the location code! even though it was at least 10 months earlier.

If their WS is allowed by the Judge to be referred to by their rep, point out how stupid and unfair that submission is!  Who can recall the location code of a place they parked at a year before?

Guidance1

Coupon-mad said:

 "Each party must deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than 23rd February 2022" yet i received it today. 

Have i missed something?

No, they missed something - a mandatory Court Order deadline that says 'must'!

They are a serial litigant, legally represented and have not applied for relief from sanctions (if at the hearing it turns out they have, you must object').

Was it signed after the deadline? 

A very late WS and evidence is 'unreasonable conduct' and gained them the advantage of seeing yours first and commenting on everything.

You can and should ask the Judge first thing at the hearing (before their rep starts to speak) to please strike out all their late evidence and the whole WS and disallow the Claimant from being heard at all, as they have ignored a court order and forfeited the right to present witness evidence.

Although they have raised that the vehicle has parked in that car park before and therefore must have known the location code! even though it was at least 10 months earlier.

If their WS is allowed by the Judge to be referred to by their rep, point out how stupid and unfair that submission is!  Who can recall the location code of a place they parked at a year before?

Thanks @coupon-mad i thought i must be going mad but it is clear as crystal at the back of the letter under "The following Direction apply to this Claim" they have even put no later than 23 February 2022 in bold. @forgotmyname have you checked the back of your N157? i suspect it will be similar i.e few days before date court fees need to be paid rather than 14 days.

Makes sense, as it gives each party the opportunity (2 days) to read each others statements before paying the court fees and proceeding. 

Its funny how they keep referring to my template when theirs is clearly a template used to counter each point. Its clearly designed to counter arguments about signage which i'm not even disputing to some extent. I know its a car park, and i thought i had paid in it. Its the location codes (which are only one 2 small signs) i'm disputing and the ambiguity that exists. 

If their witness statement is ruled out completely, what evidence can they rely on? 

Coupon-mad

If their witness statement is ruled out completely, what evidence can they rely on? 

Zilch!

Your WS will be the only evidence the Judge can consider and you would have the floor, so to speak.

Was it signed, or posted, after the deadline?

Guidance1

Coupon-mad said:

If their witness statement is ruled out completely, what evidence can they rely on? 

Zilch!

Your WS will be the only evidence the Judge can consider and you would have the floor, so to speak.

Was it signed, or posted, after the deadline?

I really don't know what is going on with it! its dated and signed the 21st February although it landed in the porch yesterday! im following up with Royal Mail. I can only assume it was left with a Neighbor and they dropped it in porch yesterday, which is frustrating as i would have had it 2 days before i submitted my WS. Its quite a big package so wont have fitted in the letter box.  

Gutted, for moment i thought we had a slam dunk! 

forgotmyname

Yeah its like war and peace...    Is their Landowner copy font an unreadable size?  I needed to use 3.5x magnification glasses to
even make out the text.

Hopefully you find will missing info in it. Big jug of tea or coffee and a huge plate of biscuits.  I love the fact ours provided an excellent
plan of the carpark with what im hoping is a major flaw.. I wont say yet but fingers crossed it plays a large part in a win for us.

Makes me wonder if that is the reason why they do not put page numbers? Sneak in an extra page and only refer to paragraphs?

Coupon-mad

Guidance1 said:

Coupon-mad said:

If their witness statement is ruled out completely, what evidence can they rely on? 

Zilch!

Your WS will be the only evidence the Judge can consider and you would have the floor, so to speak.

Was it signed, or posted, after the deadline?

I really don't know what is going on with it! its dated and signed the 21st February although it landed in the porch yesterday! im following up with Royal Mail. I can only assume it was left with a Neighbor and they dropped it in porch yesterday, which is frustrating as i would have had it 2 days before i submitted my WS. Its quite a big package so wont have fitted in the letter box.  

Gutted, for moment i thought we had a slam dunk! 

You may still do.  Ring the court Monday and ask when they received their copy.

Also, was this signature date prior to the date they could have seen your WS, have they backdated it too much to be credible?

Guidance1

Coupon-mad said:

Guidance1 said:

Coupon-mad said:

If their witness statement is ruled out completely, what evidence can they rely on? 

Zilch!

Your WS will be the only evidence the Judge can consider and you would have the floor, so to speak.

Was it signed, or posted, after the deadline?

I really don't know what is going on with it! its dated and signed the 21st February although it landed in the porch yesterday! im following up with Royal Mail. I can only assume it was left with a Neighbor and they dropped it in porch yesterday, which is frustrating as i would have had it 2 days before i submitted my WS. Its quite a big package so wont have fitted in the letter box.  

Gutted, for moment i thought we had a slam dunk! 

You may still do.  Ring the court Monday and ask when they received their copy.

Also, was this signature date prior to the date they could have seen your WS, have they backdated it too much to be credible?

It's a mystery, I have spoken with my naighbours on both sides - neither of which were aware of the package. They letter is dated and signed on 21st February. I will call the court on Monday, however, I'll just have to proceed on basis it was received until informed otherwise. Very frustrating but it Is what it is.

The bulk of their defence is geared around the car park signage, they have stated consistently that location code of the site is on every sign. That is rubbish, there are only two signs with location code and it's a massive car park. 

They have also said the car park is called NCP store street car park. They actually pointed out we had paid in March of the same year (girlfriends car that I'm not a keeper of or even insured to drive we just use same paybyohone app) what it does mean is I now have VAT reciepts for both car parks.

One is store street car park, the other is simply store street. It is on street, but doesn't say that on the app. My view is that's far to ambiguous considering they're a few meters apart. Only one car park is also shown on paybyohone app which fortunately I screen shot some years ago. 

The actual events on the day were I pulled into the car park, looked for location sign which couldn't see, used paybyohone app, used the map feature which found my location and showed only one car park, I pressed that car park it said Store Street so I paid and thought no more of it. 

Evidence wise, I have that very map which shows the one car park, reciepts of both car parks that year and proof the car park was just called store street. To me, it's clearly ambiguous and they have lier outlets times in their defence. Some of ther pictures are dated 2017 yet have the NCP park pass on the signs which didn't come in until they got rid of paybyphone.

It's difficult, as this information is no longer available so evidence is just screens I took at the time.

I'm basing the above as my main defence, does it feel viable enough? They have added evidence of "store street Car Park" then there's a light NCP under which I know wasn't there when I paid. Paybyohone does say check street signage tho where I used the map on the day, as only one car park was on there I had no reason to suspect it could be wrong.

Thanks for all your help btw it's truly appreciated. Must admit lost abit of sleep over this.

D_P_Dance

 They said the WS is a copy/paste 

If you think that this amounts to unprofessional conduct, (I certainly do),  complain here

https://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/instructing/your-right-to-complain/

forgotmyname

Its like BW use a template or something because our paperwork is almost an exact copy of yours (strange that) 

And yet your situation/circumstances are not related to ours in any way except its a parking/contract issue.

Must admit this ones nowhere near as easy as previous tickets I have helped people with. 1st one thats actually gone
to court.   Chin up and keep slogging away.

Win and its all over, lose and you pay within 28 days and its all over.

Question for you.   Did you receive anything regarding the DVLA and how/when they contacted them for your details?
Not supplied with the SAR either, same with you?