Claim Form BW Legal

Guidance1

Hello all,

Unfortunately, I have only just heard about this forum through a friend! it would have been so helpful if id had the NEWBIES post from the beginning as i would have approached this very differently. I am hoping you're able to advise if you believe my case is winnable, i strongly feel i am being unfairly charged for what was an honest mistake. However, after back to back emails with BW legal I feel i am left no choice but to pay.

I thought i had paid for parking at an NCP car park in Manchester (Store Street) using paybyphone app. I thought nothing of it until i received letters from TRACE debt collectors months later chasing £100 for apparently not paying. I appealed to TRACE noting i had paid the ticket and sent them proof. In their response they have found the original PCN from NCP was sent to an old address as i moved in between and the ticket i had purchased was for Store Street (on street) parking 1yd away from Store Street car park on the app. Parking on street and in the car park are both "store street" on the app and only one car park is shown on the pay by phone map or at least was until NCP brought out there own app. I was told my right to appeal has expired - even though i didn't get a chance to appeal as i never received the NCP letters. 

BW Legal took on the case, I have been exchanging emails with them to plea my case based on the following:

1. Original PCN sent to wrong address i was in temporary accommodation at the time in the middle of the pandemic, house move was put on hold as was the rest of the world. Trying to get the point across that i did all i could to keep my address up to date under the circumstance. I was never given chance to pay £60 or appeal. 

2. Signage within the car park showing "store street car park" and paybyphone code is insufficient there is only two in the car park i can find. 

3. The digital platform they're encouraging you to use i.e paybyphone is very misleading, two car parks in such close proximity should not have same name! leads to clear and obvious errors like mine.  

4. The car park is in poor state of repair, no markings, homeless regularly sleeping there in tents, no lighting etc I therefore find it hard to accept guidance for car parks has been followed here.

BW Legal are standing by the fact the NCP car park is BPA member so all signage etc is sufficient and that i should have made sure payment was made in the right car park and its all my responsibility to ensure my address is up to date.

The claim form is requesting £259.20 which I feel is absolutely ridiculous for £5 ticket, which i did pay, albeit, to the wrong car park a few yards away. This is really bothering me to the point where I am considering paying to avoid the stress, just feel its so unfair that i wasn't given chance to pay the £60. 

Any advice on whether or not you think i have any chance of winning would be very much appreciated, i am following the NEWBIES post on responding to Claim Form.

Thanks for taking the time to read the above. 

patient_dream

Guidance1 said:

Hello all,

Unfortunately, I have only just heard about this forum through a friend! it would have been so helpful if id had the NEWBIES post from the beginning as i would have approached this very differently. I am hoping you're able to advise if you believe my case is winnable, i strongly feel i am being unfairly charged for what was an honest mistake. However, after back to back emails with BW legal I feel i am left no choice but to pay.

I thought i had paid for parking at an NCP car park in Manchester (Store Street) using paybyphone app. I thought nothing of it until i received letters from TRACE debt collectors months later chasing £100 for apparently not paying. I appealed to TRACE noting i had paid the ticket and sent them proof. In their response they have found the original PCN from NCP was sent to an old address as i moved in between and the ticket i had purchased was for Store Street (on street) parking 1yd away from Store Street car park on the app. Parking on street and in the car park are both "store street" on the app and only one car park is shown on the pay by phone map or at least was until NCP brought out there own app. I was told my right to appeal has expired - even though i didn't get a chance to appeal as i never received the NCP letters. 

BW Legal took on the case, I have been exchanging emails with them to plea my case based on the following:

1. Original PCN sent to wrong address i was in temporary accommodation at the time in the middle of the pandemic, house move was put on hold as was the rest of the world. Trying to get the point across that i did all i could to keep my address up to date under the circumstance. I was never given chance to pay £60 or appeal. 

2. Signage within the car park showing "store street car park" and paybyphone code is insufficient there is only two in the car park i can find. 

3. The digital platform they're encouraging you to use i.e paybyphone is very misleading, two car parks in such close proximity should not have same name! leads to clear and obvious errors like mine.  

4. The car park is in poor state of repair, no markings, homeless regularly sleeping there in tents, no lighting etc I therefore find it hard to accept guidance for car parks has been followed here.

BW Legal are standing by the fact the NCP car park is BPA member so all signage etc is sufficient and that i should have made sure payment was made in the right car park and its all my responsibility to ensure my address is up to date.

The claim form is requesting £259.20 which I feel is absolutely ridiculous for £5 ticket, which i did pay, albeit, to the wrong car park a few yards away. This is really bothering me to the point where I am considering paying to avoid the stress, just feel its so unfair that i wasn't given chance to pay the £60. 

Any advice on whether or not you think i have any chance of winning would be very much appreciated, i am following the NEWBIES post on responding to Claim Form.

Thanks for taking the time to read the above. 

£259.20 ????   How is this broken down ?  You can guarantee BWL have added a fake amount.

You must also read these threads all about how BWLegal get spanked in court 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6014081/abuse-of-process-district-judge-tells-bwlegal/p1?new=1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6103933/abuse-of-process-thread-part-2/p1?new=1

You will see the word "ABUSE OF PROCESS" ... that is not used any more although it is applicate.
The words now are "DOUBLE RECOVERY" which in turn is abuse of process

And, this case is still applicable even though it is EXCEL, it's still the same for BWLegal fakery
EXCEL v WILKINSON ..... claim struck out for ABUSE OF PROCESS.  DDJ Jackson who is now HHJ Jackson made this ruling.  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V Excel v Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

A lot of reading with a good glass wine

Guidance1

Amount claimed £174.20 which apparently includes £0.04p a day statutory interest totally £14.20 (pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at rate of 8% per annum) and £60 recovery cost
Court fee £35
Legal representatives costs £50 

Thanks a lot, i will take a read! ill need a good glass or bottle of wine having to deal with BW Legal. 

Guidance1

patient_dream said:

Guidance1 said:

Hello all,

Unfortunately, I have only just heard about this forum through a friend! it would have been so helpful if id had the NEWBIES post from the beginning as i would have approached this very differently. I am hoping you're able to advise if you believe my case is winnable, i strongly feel i am being unfairly charged for what was an honest mistake. However, after back to back emails with BW legal I feel i am left no choice but to pay.

I thought i had paid for parking at an NCP car park in Manchester (Store Street) using paybyphone app. I thought nothing of it until i received letters from TRACE debt collectors months later chasing £100 for apparently not paying. I appealed to TRACE noting i had paid the ticket and sent them proof. In their response they have found the original PCN from NCP was sent to an old address as i moved in between and the ticket i had purchased was for Store Street (on street) parking 1yd away from Store Street car park on the app. Parking on street and in the car park are both "store street" on the app and only one car park is shown on the pay by phone map or at least was until NCP brought out there own app. I was told my right to appeal has expired - even though i didn't get a chance to appeal as i never received the NCP letters. 

BW Legal took on the case, I have been exchanging emails with them to plea my case based on the following:

1. Original PCN sent to wrong address i was in temporary accommodation at the time in the middle of the pandemic, house move was put on hold as was the rest of the world. Trying to get the point across that i did all i could to keep my address up to date under the circumstance. I was never given chance to pay £60 or appeal. 

2. Signage within the car park showing "store street car park" and paybyphone code is insufficient there is only two in the car park i can find. 

3. The digital platform they're encouraging you to use i.e paybyphone is very misleading, two car parks in such close proximity should not have same name! leads to clear and obvious errors like mine.  

4. The car park is in poor state of repair, no markings, homeless regularly sleeping there in tents, no lighting etc I therefore find it hard to accept guidance for car parks has been followed here.

BW Legal are standing by the fact the NCP car park is BPA member so all signage etc is sufficient and that i should have made sure payment was made in the right car park and its all my responsibility to ensure my address is up to date.

The claim form is requesting £259.20 which I feel is absolutely ridiculous for £5 ticket, which i did pay, albeit, to the wrong car park a few yards away. This is really bothering me to the point where I am considering paying to avoid the stress, just feel its so unfair that i wasn't given chance to pay the £60. 

Any advice on whether or not you think i have any chance of winning would be very much appreciated, i am following the NEWBIES post on responding to Claim Form.

Thanks for taking the time to read the above. 

£259.20 ????   How is this broken down ?  You can guarantee BWL have added a fake amount.

You must also read these threads all about how BWLegal get spanked in court 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6014081/abuse-of-process-district-judge-tells-bwlegal/p1?new=1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6103933/abuse-of-process-thread-part-2/p1?new=1

You will see the word "ABUSE OF PROCESS" ... that is not used any more although it is applicate.
The words now are "DOUBLE RECOVERY" which in turn is abuse of process

And, this case is still applicable even though it is EXCEL, it's still the same for BWLegal fakery
EXCEL v WILKINSON ..... claim struck out for ABUSE OF PROCESS.  DDJ Jackson who is now HHJ Jackson made this ruling.  


A lot of reading with a good glass wine

Amount claimed £174.20 which apparently includes £0.04p a day statutory interest totally £14.20 (pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at rate of 8% per annum) and £60 recovery cost
Court fee £35
Legal representatives costs £50 

Thanks a lot, i will take a read! ill need a good glass or bottle of wine having to deal with BW Legal. 

bargepole

Thanks a lot, i will take a read! ill need a good glass or bottle of wine having to deal with BW Legal. 

No, you are not 'having to deal with BW Legal', and should not contact them in any way from now on, except when the Court instructs you to file and serve documents.

You are dealing with the County Court. What you must do, following the instructions for the various steps in the NEWBIES thread, is to make sure all steps are complied with and completed by the deadline dates. These will include your Acknowledgment of Service, your Defence, your Directions Questionnaire, and, much later on, your Witness Statement and attached evidence exhibits.

Your job is to make sure you everything by the book. What BW Legal do, or fail to do, is their problem.

Guidance1

bargepole said:

Thanks a lot, i will take a read! ill need a good glass or bottle of wine having to deal with BW Legal. 

No, you are not 'having to deal with BW Legal', and should not contact them in any way from now on, except when the Court instructs you to file and serve documents.

You are dealing with the County Court. What you must do, following the instructions for the various steps in the NEWBIES thread, is to make sure all steps are complied with and completed by the deadline dates. These will include your Acknowledgment of Service, your Defence, your Directions Questionnaire, and, much later on, your Witness Statement and attached evidence exhibits.

Your job is to make sure you everything by the book. What BW Legal do, or fail to do, is their problem.

Thanks, and duly noted. 

With everything i mentioned above, do you think i have much of a defense? feel like i dont have a leg to stand on at the minute

patient_dream

bargepole said:

. What BW Legal do, or fail to do, is their problem.

Agreed ... and with the fakes, it is really their problem

Just wonder how many judges nowadays are sucked in with BWLegal rubbish

bargepole

With everything i mentioned above, do you think i have much of a defense? feel like i dont have a leg to stand on at the minute

Of course you do. And it's Defence, not 'defense'. This is Manchester, not Manhattan.

Is this the location in question: 8 Store St - Google Maps ?

The two adjacent car parks, and the confusion with the NCP App, created an honest mistake for which the proper legal term is de minimis non curat lex (In case you didn't do Latin at school, Google it).

That would be your strongest Defence argument.

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Guidance1

bargepole said:

With everything i mentioned above, do you think i have much of a defense? feel like i dont have a leg to stand on at the minute

Of course you do. And it's Defence, not 'defense'. This is Manchester, not Manhattan.

Is this the location in question: ?

The two adjacent car parks, and the confusion with the NCP App, created an honest mistake for which the proper legal term is de minimis non curat lex (In case you didn't do Latin at school, Google it).

That would be your strongest Defence argument.

That is the car park, with the on-street parking directly opposite. Both of which are called Store Street on the home page of the paybyphone app. If you go onto the MAP view on paybyphone which i did, it also only shows the big car park and shows nothing for on-street so it was very misleading.

Guidance1

KeithP said:

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Hi KeithP. The issue date is the 5th October although i only received the letter yesterday (7th)