Dismissal and reference

thebrexitunicorn

He might want to try to reach a settlement of the tribunal claim.   Very often settlements can include an agreed factual reference.  Some cases settle for a reference alone.  It would probably be a basic reference giving dates of employment and role, it shouldn’t say anything about the reason for leaving.  Many employers will only provide this type of reference. 

[Deleted User]

Don’t know why the hard time, OP’s OH may had a competency interview which often doesn’t require being asked why leaving jobs.

I would say though it is best to let the employer know more then you just have to tell them.

I’m going from private to public sector and found references are actually the last thing being checked. Once you are going through the checks which are costly let’s face it and being the right fit for a job why would an organisation want to withdraw.

Very best of luck to your partner. I hope they did get to move on.

Jillanddy

mahoney said:

Jillanddy said:

mahoney said:

elsien said:

Was there not anything on the application form or in the interview about the reason for leaving?
It’s not unusual for prospective employers to ask about a gap, so did he fudge it or did it genuinely not come up? 

He just said he'd took a break - he didn't want to be at previous place anyway anymore then this happened.  Really looking forward to a new start.

So he actually lied. That in itself is gross misconduct and many employers would seriously consider dismissal when they found out. And it's usually when, not if.

My goodness, I seriously hope you never need a second chance in life.  You should really take a good look at yourself.

You know nothing. I have made my position clear. Needing a second chance I am absolutely fine with and have helped people do so many times. You, on the other hand, have lied and colluded with his lies on job applications and posts here and want people to reassure you that lying is fine and justified because it suits you, and you are special. You are the one who needs to have a good hard look at yourself. I have done nothing more than advise you that you course of action (or the one you are helping / advising him to take) is, in itself, gross misconduct  and could easily result in a further dismissal, assuming his lies get him through the offer stage. That is telling you the truth, and if that isn't something that you are able to cope with, then that's a shame. Abusing people on a personal basis because you don't like the truth is not a good look either.

Jillanddy

Deleted User said:

Don‚Äôt know why the hard time, OP‚Äôs OH may had a competency interview which often doesn‚Äôt require being asked why leaving jobs. The OP has admitted that they have lied to the potential employer so they HAVE been asked and they lied.

I would say though it is best to let the employer know more then you just have to tell them.

I‚Äôm going from private to public sector and found references are actually the last thing being checked. Once you are going through the checks which are costly let‚Äôs face it and being the right fit for a job why would an organisation want to withdraw. I don't know what public sector organisation you are going to work in but every one that I have come across checks references AND asks for far more than just the dates and reason for leaving. But the checks are there to try to check that you are telling them the truth, and if they find that you have lied then of course they will want to consider whether they wish to employ you.

Very best of luck to your partner. I hope they did get to move on.

Nobody is giving the OP a hard time. The OP is being told the truth and doesn't like it so they are reacting with anger and abuse best reserved for people who tell lies. 

74jax

Do you know why he said he took a break? Had he rehearsed his interview answers but got a little confused maybe?  What did he write on his application for the reason?

My old corporate job, had around 60k employees, so had basic references. Dates, job title, reason for leaving. That was it. It was pulled off the HR database, so the reasons for leaving was brief - resignation /dismissal /end of contract etc. Could his be similar?

It's never a good idea to lie. People tend to get 2nd chances when they own up, not when they hide the reasons. 

Undervalued

mahoney said:

Jillanddy said:

mahoney said:

elsien said:

Was there not anything on the application form or in the interview about the reason for leaving?
It’s not unusual for prospective employers to ask about a gap, so did he fudge it or did it genuinely not come up? 

He just said he'd took a break - he didn't want to be at previous place anyway anymore then this happened.  Really looking forward to a new start.

So he actually lied. That in itself is gross misconduct and many employers would seriously consider dismissal when they found out. And it's usually when, not if.

My goodness, I seriously hope you never need a second chance in life.  You should really take a good look at yourself.

That is an appalling comment considering that you (on behalf or your husband) are 100% in the wrong here.

You husband has been dismissed for gross misconduct. That is a fact at the moment.

He may believe that the dismissal is legally unfair but unless or until an employment tribunal rules in his favour that is what he must tell any potential employer who asks the direct question. If he thinks it will help he can tell them his side of the story providing he sticks to the truth.

As has been said, making a false statement in order to obtain employment is automatically gross misconduct if the new employer later finds out and chooses to treat it that way.

It is also, technically, a criminal offence (fraud). It used to be known as obtaining a pecuniary advantage (in this case a job) by deception before that became part of the revised fraud act. OK, it is not often that somebody is arrested by the police and charged but it can and does happen occasionally under some circumstances.

krusty101

thebrexitunicorn said:

He might want to try to reach a settlement of the tribunal claim.   Very often settlements can include an agreed factual reference.  Some cases settle for a reference alone.  It would probably be a basic reference giving dates of employment and role, it shouldn’t say anything about the reason for leaving.  Many employers will only provide this type of reference. 

Agreed. Go via ACAS and say you’ll drop it for an agreed reference. 

mahoney

Jillanddy said:

Deleted User said:

Don‚Äôt know why the hard time, OP‚Äôs OH may had a competency interview which often doesn‚Äôt require being asked why leaving jobs. The OP has admitted that they have lied to the potential employer so they HAVE been asked and they lied.

I would say though it is best to let the employer know more then you just have to tell them.

I‚Äôm going from private to public sector and found references are actually the last thing being checked. Once you are going through the checks which are costly let‚Äôs face it and being the right fit for a job why would an organisation want to withdraw. I don't know what public sector organisation you are going to work in but every one that I have come across checks references AND asks for far more than just the dates and reason for leaving. But the checks are there to try to check that you are telling them the truth, and if they find that you have lied then of course they will want to consider whether they wish to employ you.

Very best of luck to your partner. I hope they did get to move on.

Nobody is giving the OP a hard time. The OP is being told the truth and doesn't like it so they are reacting with anger and abuse best reserved for people who tell lies. 

OP is not reacting with 'anger and abuse", OP is just confused how a question on what does a post dismissal reference look like, has turned in to a holier than thou preach.  That's all.  And please don't label OP a liar.

Thanks so much to those who have provided help and support.  

Jillanddy

Sorry,  just having difficulty reconciling getting sacked for gross misconduct with telling people, including potential employers,  that he fancied a break. Obviously that isn't a lie. It's just bending the truth beyond any reasonable interpretation. 

But to answer your simple question, most references I send or receive contain two basic questions,  and more... the first is why did the person leave,  answer dismissed for gross misconduct; followed by would you employ the person again,  answer no.  

Reading between the lines of the three threads on this, it clearly wasn't a competency issue,  theft or similar.  You claim its a matter of opinion only,  and there was no evidence.  It doesn't take a genius to work out the limited number of allegations.  Such are extremely serious and most decent employers would take a very dim view of lying about such allegations.  Or, as you would have it,  forgetting to tell the truth when asked directly why he left.  

Now I'll leave you to your life. If and when he is sacked again,  do remember that you were warned. It's so much harder when it's the third second chance. 

Also I didn't say you were a liar. I said that the abuse you directed at me - and you did - was best directed at those who lie.  Why would you think that meant you? 

Dr_Crypto

I’m no longer surprised at the moralising and holier than thou attitude of posters in these forums, although it remains disappointing. 

Most people tell lies. However, the way that some in here react it is like the person is on the same level as a sex offender! 

Lots of ways to approach this. You could get an agreement with the previous employee to provide the reference in exchange for dropping the ET claim. You could ask former managers if they would be prepared to provide it “in a personal capacity” or you could see who the new firm will accept a reference from - sometimes they don’t say and you can use former colleagues