Dismissal and reference

mahoney

Morning,

Husband was dismissed for gross misconduct a few months ago.  It was a very stressful period (required medical support) which went on for many months as the company dealt with it poorly.  He contested, spent a fortune on a lawyer, but ultimately the outcome was dismissal.  It is has now moved on to an employment tribunal, citing unfair dismissal - awaiting a date.
Anyway, as they say, time is a great healer and we now just want to move forward.  He has just got an offer after an interview which is such amazing news, but now we are wondering what the former employment checks look like .....?
No idea what happens here - he put references on request;  The new company says they run various checks.  Does anyone have experience in this area to say how this would work?  Who does the request go to and what is provided?  Do companies always check the previous company?
He just wants to move on, as anyone would want to after this, and it seems unfair that a previous employer could determine your path forward.  I'm hoping that it's one of those basic references just with dates - ?  Both former and new company are large companies.  We are fine to drop the employment tribunal part as it truly now feels like it all needs to be put behind us.

Many thanks 

[Deleted User]

They've likely, though not certain, to include reason for leaving,

What did he tell them at the interview?

Undervalued

mahoney said:

Morning,

Husband was dismissed for gross misconduct a few months ago.  It was a very stressful period (required medical support) which went on for many months as the company dealt with it poorly.  He contested, spent a fortune on a lawyer, but ultimately the outcome was dismissal.  It is has now moved on to an employment tribunal, citing unfair dismissal - awaiting a date.
Anyway, as they say, time is a great healer and we now just want to move forward.  He has just got an offer after an interview which is such amazing news, but now we are wondering what the former employment checks look like .....?
No idea what happens here - he put references on request;  The new company says they run various checks.  Does anyone have experience in this area to say how this would work?  Who does the request go to and what is provided?  Do companies always check the previous company?
He just wants to move on, as anyone would want to after this, and it seems unfair that a previous employer could determine your path forward.  I'm hoping that it's one of those basic references just with dates - ?  Both former and new company are large companies.  We are fine to drop the employment tribunal part as it truly now feels like it all needs to be put behind us.

Many thanks 

Even if he doesn't offer the company that dismissed him as a reference he can't stop a potential employer approaching them. Whether they should reply or not, without his permission, is another matter but there is little he can do to prevent it.

Equally, if they say "We are not wiling to provide a reference for this person" it is pretty damming!

They may have a policy of basic reference only, many do but plenty don't. They can say anything they like in a reference as long as it is true and not deliberately misleading. Remember, in providing a reference, a company has an equal duty to both parties to be fair and honest.

"This individual was dismissed and is now taking us to an employment tribunal" would be a true statement but is unlikely to help him get a job I'm afraid.

Nobody can tell you for certain how many, if any, checks will be done. It varies wildly. It could be none at all of it could be extensive and involve a specialist firm researching every legally available detail of his past! A lot depends on the field of work.

One approach, although not instant, is to offer to drop the ET claim in exchange for a legally binding settlement agreement which would normally include an agreed reference.

Bradden

mahoney said:

He just wants to move on, as anyone would want to after this, and it seems unfair that a previous employer could determine your path forward. 

I can uinderstand how you feel but from an employers perspective they are entitled to know if someone has been sacked for theft previously.. or something similarly seriour before they join the company.

Jillanddy

Is this the same "OH has recently left a position as it became intolerable" position that you posted about on 8th July? Because there is a world of difference between being dismissed for gross misconduct and "leaving a position that has become intolerable". Nobody can tell you what any specific employer will want in terms of references, but it is very uncommon not to ask for the reason for leaving the employment, even on a basic reference. In my experience the vast majority of employers want to know whether someone has been dismissed or not. And very few are satisfied without a reference from the last employer, no matter what references you give them. 

My advice has always been that if you have something to hide, it is usually best to disclose it at the offer stage and get the trouble out of the way - even if that means that they withdraw the offer. You may not be aware, but if you have remotely mislead or lied to an employer about your past, it is still possible for an employer to fairly dismiss for it even years later. That means that he will be looking over his shoulder for a long time to come, hoping that nobody finds out - and these days it is remarkably easy for things to follow you. All it takes is a former manager or colleague to come across you, or to spot something on social media or the internet - or even to get a job at the same firm that you have hidden facts from.

From a purely personal point of view, and as a recruiting manager, if someone tells me information voluntarily, I would consider their version of events and decide for myself, true or not, whether it impacts on the role that I am offering. I might make enquiries of the previous employer. But being dismissed would not be a barrier to being offered a role. Lying to me, withholding the truth or misleading me would, when I find out, lead to another dismissal. I can accommodate people making mistakes. I can accommodate people being falsely accused. I wouldn't ever accommodate someone lying to me or misleading me because I can no longer believe what they say to me. 

The previous employer isn't determining anything - you are, by misleading a potential new employer. It is not a good look. And far worse, in my eyes, than having been dismissed. Many employers would feel the same. 

mahoney

Thanks for your replies.  I know honesty is usually the best route and will avoid thinking about it going forward, but concerned that he may tell them something they don't need to know.
I can understand why companies do criminal checks, right to work etc, but when it's a previous employer's opinion, (not following acas guidance), it doesn't feel right that they can keep that hold over you.  
I've hired various folk myself and have never seen a reference from a previous company regarding why they left.  I've only heard from the new hire on their reasons, though possibly HR do checks.

Jillanddy

I can understand why companies do criminal checks, right to work etc, but when it's a previous employer's opinion, (not following acas guidance), it doesn't feel right that they can keep that hold over you

Really? You think that future employers have no right to know about a former employees theft, fraud, bullying, harassment, abuse.... etc, etc? That is naïve at best.  Just because someone may not have a criminal record and have the right to work in the UK doesn't make them a desirable employee. It says a lot that you are going to avoid thinking about honesty being the best policy. Your OH may be innocent as the driven snow (or not) but deception, evasion and lies (and not thinking about it) is hardly the way to demonstrate that he did not commit gross misconduct. 

elsien

Was there not anything on the application form or in the interview about the reason for leaving?
It’s not unusual for prospective employers to ask about a gap, so did he fudge it or did it genuinely not come up? 

mahoney

elsien said:

Was there not anything on the application form or in the interview about the reason for leaving?
It’s not unusual for prospective employers to ask about a gap, so did he fudge it or did it genuinely not come up? 

He just said he'd took a break - he didn't want to be at previous place anyway anymore then this happened.  Really looking forward to a new start.

Jillanddy

mahoney said:

elsien said:

Was there not anything on the application form or in the interview about the reason for leaving?
It’s not unusual for prospective employers to ask about a gap, so did he fudge it or did it genuinely not come up? 

He just said he'd took a break - he didn't want to be at previous place anyway anymore then this happened.  Really looking forward to a new start.

So he actually lied. That in itself is gross misconduct and many employers would seriously consider dismissal when they found out. And it's usually when, not if.

mahoney

Jillanddy said:

mahoney said:

elsien said:

Was there not anything on the application form or in the interview about the reason for leaving?
It’s not unusual for prospective employers to ask about a gap, so did he fudge it or did it genuinely not come up? 

He just said he'd took a break - he didn't want to be at previous place anyway anymore then this happened.  Really looking forward to a new start.

So he actually lied. That in itself is gross misconduct and many employers would seriously consider dismissal when they found out. And it's usually when, not if.

My goodness, I seriously hope you never need a second chance in life.  You should really take a good look at yourself.