Speeding and Driving without due care

shrimptiger

Hi All,

Need some advice please:(

So 6 months ago, I was stopped by a police car on A road, who said I was speeding and driving without due care and attention(I think). He showed me the speed gun which said 72mph on a 50 zone.

He said he was giving me a section 59 notice and I would get something through the post.

I never got a section 59 warning but 6 months later, I got a single justice procedure notice and looks like they produced it 3 days before 6 months yet I received it just a day late, which I think doesn't matter.
However on his statement he doesn't mention he said he would be giving me a section 59 notice.

Now, I don't believe I was going that fast for sure but I can't know my speed for sure, could have been a bit over 50 and I think I did tell the office this too at the time. I had just joined the A road at that point, so would have sped up from 30 to get to 50.

For the driving without due care, he said I was weaving in and out of lanes. I did change lanes 2-3 times I think, but I signalled each time. I Went into the right lane, someone was tailing me, and there was space on the left so he went and I quickly did the same to come back to the middle and left maybe too I think. 

There was no accident, I signalled to change lanes and I may have undertaken another car which was slower but in the middle lane when there was space on the left lane, but I was not speeding at the time(def not over 70).

I am really worried, as this could impact my job too and I have always had a clean licence. Should I get legal representation for it or simply represent myself?
Is it covered under house legal insurance or is that just for legal advice for anything?


Does it matter that he said I would get a section 59 and got a SJPN? 

There was another car that was speeding and undertaking. Did they clock that one and then ended up catching me? (Does the LASER pro 4 gun tak ea picture of the car when it snaps the speed?)


Also I was alone, and afraid and I didn't understand why he made it sound really harsh, telling me they don't wat me on the road etc. I was pretty intimidated and just went quiet, and took the telling off lol      

ontheroad1970

The overtaking on the left could be sufficient to get a driving without due care.

Have both charges been entered on the SJPN?  

Best place to take this will be PePiPoo.

You can only get points for one, though they do have latitude to see the speeding as aggravating the DWDCA and ban you for a period of time - ASAIK banning is an option on DWDCA.  

TadleyBaggie

ontheroad1970 said:

Best place to take this will be PePiPoo.

They posted this on Pepipoo yesterday, obviously didn't like what they heard.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=141413

AdrianC

s59 is separate to the prosections.

It is a formal warning that your driving was antisocial, and it's logged against the plate. If your car is found to be being used antisocially again in a year from the warning, it will be confiscated. You can get it back, but it will cost you a few hundred quid plus your time and effort.

You need to decide if you wish to contest the charges.

If you don't, then you plead guilty.

If you do, then you plead not guilty. 
Normal court rules apply, including disclosure of evidence. The evidence presented by the prosecution will be weighed against the evidence presented by the defence, and the court will decide if the prosecution proved their case beyond reasonable doubt.

If you plead not guilty and are found to be guilty, then it will be a LOT more expensive and you will get more points.

How good is your defence? "I don't think I did, and the other guy was worse" is not a credible defence.

72mph only needs to be your peak speed, it does not need to be an average or sustained.

"I wasn't speeding when I changed lanes to pass somebody on their left - well, not over 70 in a 50 anyway..." is pretty much a plea of guilt to both charges. Remember, 51 in a 50 is exceeding the speed limit.

shrimptiger

TadleyBaggie said:

ontheroad1970 said:

Best place to take this will be PePiPoo.

They posted this on Pepipoo yesterday, obviously didn't like what they heard.

No no that isn't the case at all. Although i knew i would get a comment like this, yet i copied and pasted the same:) Posted in both places as different audiences and wanted to get different peoples opinion. Whe i did a google search for similar issues, these 2 forums came up top 2 results hence my post here

ontheroad1970

Pepipoo tends to be the most accurate, plus they have a don't help, don't post rule which is fiercely enforced.  

rigolith

It's a stitch up. They know it's basically impossible to prove you weren't speeding (unless you have a dashcam with speed display) and their speed guns are janky nonsense. If you want you to be speeding they just point the gun in the wrong place until it reads over the limit.

You are stuffed I'm afraid. Get a dashcam with GPS and speed display, it's the only defense against false accusations.

ontheroad1970

rigolith said:

It's a stitch up. They know it's basically impossible to prove you weren't speeding (unless you have a dashcam with speed display) and their speed guns are janky nonsense. If you want you to be speeding they just point the gun in the wrong place until it reads over the limit.

You are stuffed I'm afraid. Get a dashcam with GPS and speed display, it's the only defense against false accusations.

GPS won't save you, as the speed on it isn't live.  So I'd check what you hear from down the pub, if I were you.  Try bringing the GPS enabled files, and you'll be laughed out of court and given an eye watering bill for their expert, on top of a fine and a £620 not guilty costs.

TooManyPoints

rigolith said:

It's a stitch up. They know it's basically impossible to prove you weren't speeding (unless you have a dashcam with speed display) and their speed guns are janky nonsense. If you want you to be speeding they just point the gun in the wrong place until it reads over the limit.

You are stuffed I'm afraid. Get a dashcam with GPS and speed display, it's the only defense against false accusations.

Hence the recommendation to post on Pepipoo.

Car_54

rigolith said:

It's a stitch up. They know it's basically impossible to prove you weren't speeding (unless you have a dashcam with speed display) and their speed guns are janky nonsense. If you want you to be speeding they just point the gun in the wrong place until it reads over the limit.

You are stuffed I'm afraid. Get a dashcam with GPS and speed display, it's the only defense against false accusations.

A dashcam would probably have helped prove the accusation of careless driving ….

poppy12345

TooManyPoints said:

rigolith said:

It's a stitch up. They know it's basically impossible to prove you weren't speeding (unless you have a dashcam with speed display) and their speed guns are janky nonsense. If you want you to be speeding they just point the gun in the wrong place until it reads over the limit.

You are stuffed I'm afraid. Get a dashcam with GPS and speed display, it's the only defense against false accusations.

Hence the recommendation to post on Pepipoo.

They already did before posting here. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=141413