Need further negotiations, but....

desthemoaner

Evening all

Bit long this, sorry.

Currently buying and selling: making glacial progress on both counts. We lost out on a couple of properties after being outbid well over asking price, so put in an offer six grand above "asking" for a house in an area we really like. We secured the property, and set about arranging surveys etc.

 The boiler needs replacement, and to our surprise and delight the vendor voluntarily reduced the purchase price by an amount equivalent to two thirds of that cost.  Following the building survey we had an EICR completed, and that threw up about a grand’s worth of work. The building survey report identified two further potential problems: a flat roof that needed replacement, and the existence of pitch fibre drains. I arranged a drain survey, then organised a flat roof inspection and quote, and that’s when the fun began.

The EA informed the vendor about the flat roof inspection and he took umbrage, demanding that no further visits by tradesmen be arranged, and that if we did so, and asked for more money off the price he would withdraw the property from sale and remarket it ( the property is empty and being sold with vacant possession). Leaving aside the fact that we’ve done nothing unusual and that another buyer would almost certainly insist on exactly the same checks,  that seems like a totally illogical stance to take. Meanwhile, perhaps in order to draw a line under the transaction,  he reduced the property price by an amount that covers the remaining cost of the boiler.

 We’re now facing a hefty bill for the electrics, the flat roof and the drain replacement ( cost TBA). We could swallow the entire cost but it’s likely to be five grand or more.  Being about six weeks into both sale and purchase and having spent over a grand on surveys, I’m  reluctant to pull the plug on the purchase, but also reluctant to take on what is likely to be a significant cost without further attempts at negotiation.  There are no other properties we can afford in the area where we want to live.

I suppose the crucial question is “how much do we want that property”, and if the answer is “a lot”, then we must pay the entire price of those repairs.  However, bearing in mind that neither I nor anyone who posts here knows how the vendor’s mind works, is it worth talking to the EA, ask them if they can just advise the vendor of the costs we’ve identified rather than actually asking for a reduction, and hope that he voluntarily stumps up a bit more cash? All at the risk of him taking the property off the market?

Irishpearce26

What did the surveyors valuation say?

canaldumidi

Not enough information.....

desthemoaner said:

Evening all

Bit long this, sorry.

Currently buying and selling: making glacial progress on both counts. We lost out on a couple of properties after being outbid well over asking price, so put in an offer six grand above "asking" for a house in an area we really like. We secured the property, and set about arranging surveys etc.

£6K over a 100K property or £6K over a £1M property?

The boiler needs replacement, 

What did the survey say? Surveyors are not boiler engineers and rarely state this unless it actually does not work. What was the exact wording? More info needed.

and to our surprise and delight the vendor voluntarily reduced the purchase price by an amount equivalent to two thirds of that cost. 

That is indeed surprising and delightdul.

Following the building survey we had an EICR completed, and that threw up about a grand’s worth of work.

Again, more info needed. Essential for remedy dangerous wiring, or suggested improvements? Were the items C1, C2, or C3s?

The building survey report identified two further potential problems: a flat roof that needed replacement,

More info needed. Is it leaking? or is it 'near the end of its life' which could mean it will last 5 more years, need some patching, and then last another 5 years?

and the existence of pitch fibre drains. I arranged a drain survey, then organised a flat roof inspection and quote, and that’s when the fun began. More info.... what did the drain survey show?

The EA informed the vendor about the flat roof inspection and he took umbrage, demanding that no further visits by tradesmen be arranged,

I'm not hugely surprised.

and that if we did so, and asked for more money off the price he would withdraw the property from sale and remarket it ( the property is empty and being sold with vacant possession).

I'm not hugely surprised.

Leaving aside the fact that we’ve done nothing unusual  cannot comment as not enough info provided to justify the requested deductions

and that another buyer would almost certainly insist on exactly the same checks,

another buyer might or might not insist on exactly the same checks, and might or might not insist on exactly the same deductions

 that seems like a totally illogical stance to take.

Not at all. You don't know the vendor's position. Perhaps he's more concerned with obtaining the price he has in mind than in selling within a given timescale. Perhaps he feels the items you've listed are not as serious as you do (hard tosay as you've not provided enough info). Or.... or....

Meanwhile, perhaps in order to draw a line under the transaction,  he reduced the property price by an amount that covers the remaining cost of the boiler. That seems VERY reasonable

 We’re now facing a possible (not enough info) hefty bill for the electrics, the flat roof and the drain replacement ( cost TBA). We could swallow the entire cost but it’s likely to be five grand or more. not enough info

Being about six weeks into both sale and purchase and having spent over a grand on surveys, I’m  reluctant to pull the plug on the purchase, Understandable - that's the way property purchaes go. If you DO pull the plug, instead of thinking "I've wasted over a grand", think "That grand was well-spent and saved me mis-buying".

but also reluctant to take on what is likely to be a significant cost without further attempts at negotiation.  There are no other properties we can afford in the area where we want to live. You have 3 choices then. No one can tell which is right.

I suppose the crucial question is “how much do we want that property”, and if the answer is “a lot”, then we must pay the entire price of those repairs.  However, bearing in mind that neither I nor anyone who posts here knows how the vendor’s mind works, is it worth talking to the EA, ask them if they can just advise the vendor of the costs we’ve identified rather than actually asking for a reduction, and hope that he voluntarily stumps up a bit more cash? All at the risk of him taking the property off the market?

There's no point advising the vendor of the costs you’ve identified UNLESS you are actually asking for a reduction!

But surveys and other investigations are not purely and simply done as a means or justification to renegotiate. They are also to help you decide if the property is for you or not. If you are willing to take on improvement works or not. To help you plan for the future, whether that be undertaking improvements or being happy tolive in a less than 100% perfect property.

74jax

I'm surprised the property wasn't valued in its current state by the EA and more 'what it could be'.

I'm not sure as a vendor I'd have reduced. 

doodling

Hi,

desthemoaner said:

... I arranged a drain survey, then organised a flat roof inspection and quote, and that’s when the fun began.

The EA informed the vendor about the flat roof inspection and he took umbrage, demanding that no further visits by tradesmen be arranged, and that if we did so, and asked for more money off the price he would withdraw the property from sale and remarket it ( the property is empty and being sold with vacant possession). Leaving aside the fact that we’ve done nothing unusual and that another buyer would almost certainly insist on exactly the same checks,  that seems like a totally illogical stance to take.

...

The way that reads is that you arranged for tradespeople to inspect the property without the vendors knowledge or permission. It is likely that those tradespeople would need to have trespassed on the property to do their inspections.

If you did that to me I'd think very seriously about withdrawing from the sale. The fact that they have offered more money off strikes me as incredibly reasonable in the circumstances 

If that is the case then you will need to rebuild a lot of trust with your vendor before you have any chance of negotiating any further reductions and even then they may simply remarket at the first hint of such a request.

babyblade41

If it were me I wouldn't allow you anywhere near my property , you can't keep arranging trades people to pick away at  a property then trying to negotiate a downwards offer.

I would be saying to my agent to re-market pronto 

AdrianC

desthemoaner said:

(We) put in an offer six grand above "asking" for a house

...

The boiler needs replacement, and to our surprise and delight the vendor voluntarily reduced the purchase price by an amount equivalent to two thirds of that cost.  Following the building survey we had an EICR completed, and that threw up about a grand’s worth of work. The building survey report identified two further potential problems: a flat roof that needed replacement, and the existence of pitch fibre drains. I arranged a drain survey, then organised a flat roof inspection and quote, and that’s when the fun began.

The EA informed the vendor about the flat roof inspection and he took umbrage, demanding that no further visits by tradesmen be arranged, and that if we did so, and asked for more money off the price he would withdraw the property from sale and remarket it

I don't blame him.

You offered £6k over asking, then started trying to chisel the price back down, bit by bit.
No mention of the survey's valuation, I notice... How did that align with the original asking?
What category were the EICR works identified? 1,2 or 3?

Why not do all of the due diligence, THEN ask about renegotiating in one go based on the entirety of the condition?

But, of course, the ultimate answer is that it's entirely his prerogative as to whether to renegotiate or stand firm.

I suppose the crucial question is “how much do we want that property”, and if the answer is “a lot”, then we must pay the entire price of those repairs.

Exactly that.

However, bearing in mind that neither I nor anyone who posts here knows how the vendor’s mind works, is it worth talking to the EA, ask them if they can just advise the vendor of the costs we’ve identified rather than actually asking for a reduction, and hope that he voluntarily stumps up a bit more cash? All at the risk of him taking the property off the market?

As you say, nobody knows the vendor.

But it strikes me he's already answered that question, so why would asking it again give a different answer?

desthemoaner

Irishpearce26 said:

What did the surveyors valuation say?

The surveyor didn't do a valuation. We didn't ask for one, and we're buying mortgage free. However in the current market situation, we didn't regard the original asking price as unreasonable. 

fezster

Are you able to purchase an equivalent property without the remedial works for the same price? If so, ask for a reduction and move on if it is not forthcoming.

If not, then it's unlikely the vendor will drop the price, as he'd be able to get more by re-marketing and selling to someone else.

The fact you have spent money on surveys etc is a risk you take as a buyer. The vendor has not incurred those costs and, unless he is in a situation where he is desperate to sell, is more easily able to say no and look for an alternate buyer.

theoretica

desthemoaner said:

There are no other properties we can afford in the area where we want to live.

 The price is X, the house is in the condition it is in.  Do you want it?  or not?  Are other properties asking for more in part because they are in better condition so the costs of work like this is already factored in?

lookstraightahead

I'm all for checking things out properly and also having tradespeople in - especially if it's a cash buy.

what I don't understand though is why you think buying a house comes with no work to do? If you want absolutely no maintenance work for the next few years, but a new house (although some can be worse). 

Did your full structural survey say the flat roof needed replacing immediately as it was a danger? 

how old is the house?

If I was your vendor I too would be relisting.