LBC - I wouldn't even call the car parked, rather "stopped".

MoneySavingClown

Firstly, I want to say thank you to you guys for all the work you have put into this part of the forum. After a lot of reading, and there's much to take in, it's my turn to make a thread. For a bit of background:

• Date of incident 2019
• This was not a car park. This was a parking space on the side of the road.
• The GPS record shows the car stopped there for 6 minutes. From the time of the photo on the PCN, the car would have left 4 minutes after that.
• The driver was in the car which I hope the larger copy of the photo will show and the car was running.
• There didn't seem to be any signs showing that you were entering private land.
• There is a sign on a pole near where the car was stopped probably saying that you need a permit to park and other details, but the driver didn't get out to read it.
• The reason for the PCN is no permit. It is not a pay and display. The photo was from the back of the car, so you can't see if there's a permit on the windshield even if there was one. Nobody approached the car or driver to look.

I don't know if this is relevant but this is the second or third PCN for exactly the same circumstances, all in a close period of time, at the same place - one I paid at the time because I honestly didn't have time to deal with it then, the other one was replied to naming someone else as the driver. I wish I did my research back then.

I received an LBC from Gladstones for a UK CPM PCN I ignored I also ignored several bullying/threatening debt chaser letters from Trace.

Timeline
Date of LBC: 2/9/21
Date LBC received: 10/9/21
Date of SAR: 10/9/21

• My first step of action was to raise a SAR through UK CPM, which was dated 2 September 2021.
• Next I sent an email to the nearest company to the land I was parked on, I'm not sure they're the land owner but hopefully they can point me in the right direction for a complaint.
• The next step will be to write an email to the local MP to make a complaint about the ridiculous conduct of these parking companies and charges added on to the parking charge.

I have 30 days to dispute the debt for the LBC, and I will use the template provided. My first question is should I wait until nearer to the time or should I just reply now?

I look forward to any advice!

Coupon-mad

Reply now but add to the reply to Gladstones that you wish to see all evidence showing the alleged lack of permit because all their client has coughed up so far, appears to be an inconclusive image of the rear of the car and not the dashboard.

Tell them you require this evidence to narrow the issues as required under the pre action protocol.

D_P_Dance

I would venture that a judge would say tha you were parked.  Have you read the newbies?  Have you complained t your MP?

MoneySavingClown

Coupon-mad said:

Reply now but add to the reply to Gladstones that you wish to see all evidence showing the alleged lack of permit because all their client has coughed up so far, appears to be an inconclusive image of the rear of the car and not the dashboard.

Tell them you require this evidence to narrow the issues as required under the pre action protocol.

Will do, thank you. Half the reason I didn't know if it was worth mentioning is because permits can be electronic now and providing proof of not having a permit would be hard because there wasn't one

D_P_Dance said:

I would venture that a judge would say tha you were parked.  Have you read the newbies?  Have you complained t your MP?

I have read the newbies thread and I think I'm following the process set out as best as I can. I already know I will be weak at the defence side of things, me being stopped for a few moments on the side of the road was my only real argument so now I don't feel so good!

I have the email address for my MP so I'll be writing to her tonight after looking at some other letters for inspiration.

leonj

They will surely know who has a permit from the registration plate

Redx

Where is the location of this space or layby ?

A few years ago there was as notorious one that Mrs sunglasses patrolled , now back under council control

Get pictures of the signs , because forbidding signage comes to mind

You cannot contract to do that which is forbidden !!

MoneySavingClown

leonj said:

They will surely know who has a permit from the registration plate

That's what I imagine - and the fact that there was no permit means they might not have anything to show.

Redx said:

Where is the location of this space or layby ?

A few years ago there was as notorious one that Mrs sunglasses patrolled , now back under council control

Get pictures of the signs , because forbidding signage comes to mind

You cannot contract to do that which is forbidden !!

This is pretty much what it looked like back then. It happened in 2019 and things might have changed since then. There was nothing to show I was changing from a normal road to a private road, other than a change of paving. No signs on the entrance, just those signs on the poles.

KeithP

MoneySavingClown said:

leonj said:

They will surely know who has a permit from the registration plate

That's what I imagine - and the fact that there was no permit means they might not have anything to show.

Redx said:

Where is the location of this space or layby ?

A few years ago there was as notorious one that Mrs sunglasses patrolled , now back under council control

Get pictures of the signs , because forbidding signage comes to mind

You cannot contract to do that which is forbidden !!

This is pretty much what it looked like back then. It happened in 2019 and things might have changed since then. There was nothing to show I was changing from a normal road to a private road, other than a change of paving. No signs on the entrance, just those signs on the poles.

As you say, the paving changes from the usual tarmac.

Also, as can be seen here, the double yellow lines at the entrance to Cutter Lane suddenly stop where the road surface changes. The kerbstones also change suddenly. Big clues. As there is a big car park right by the side of it, seems strange to have unrestricted parking right there.

However, if there were no entrance signs, that is a good point.

MoneySavingClown

13 September 2021

Reference xxxxxxxxx

Dear Sirs

I’m writing with reference to your letter dated 2 September 2021.

(a) I am seeking debt advice and the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017 but

(b) I deny any debt in any case, due to the woeful signs;

(c) A driver has no chance to agree to any terms and this is a ‘concealed pitfall or trap’ (Beavis case phrase identifying penal charges that would fail).  What appears to be public highway is being operated by a predatory ticketing camera system, as if it were a commercial private car park;

(d) I wish to see all evidence showing the alleged lack of permit as the photos provided are inconclusive images of the rear of the car and not the dashboard.

(e) I have sent your client a subject access request

Yours faithfully,

My Name

MoneySavingClown

MoneySavingClown said:

13 September 2021

Reference xxxxxxxxx

Dear Sirs

I’m writing with reference to your letter dated 2 September 2021.

(a) I am seeking debt advice and the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017 but

(b) I deny any debt in any case, due to the woeful signs;

(c) A driver has no chance to agree to any terms and this is a ‘concealed pitfall or trap’ (Beavis case phrase identifying penal charges that would fail).  What appears to be public highway is being operated by a predatory ticketing camera system, as if it were a commercial private car park;

(d) I wish to see all evidence showing the alleged lack of permit as the photos provided are inconclusive images of the rear of the car and not the dashboard.

(e) I have sent your client a subject access request

Yours faithfully,

My Name

How's this first email to their solicitors?

MoneySavingClown

KeithP said:

MoneySavingClown said:

leonj said:

They will surely know who has a permit from the registration plate

That's what I imagine - and the fact that there was no permit means they might not have anything to show.

Redx said:

Where is the location of this space or layby ?

A few years ago there was as notorious one that Mrs sunglasses patrolled , now back under council control

Get pictures of the signs , because forbidding signage comes to mind

You cannot contract to do that which is forbidden !!

This is pretty much what it looked like back then. It happened in 2019 and things might have changed since then. There was nothing to show I was changing from a normal road to a private road, other than a change of paving. No signs on the entrance, just those signs on the poles.

As you say, the paving changes from the usual tarmac.

Also, as can be seen here, the double yellow lines at the entrance to Cutter Lane suddenly stop where the road surface changes. The kerbstones also change suddenly. Big clues. As there is a big car park right by the side of it, seems strange to have unrestricted parking right there.

However, if there were no entrance signs, that is a good point.

Not that they know the circumstances, but it seems bad that someone can take a wrong turn, stop for a few moments on the side of the road looking at a map, not even long enough to get out and read what "contract" they're agreeing to just by being there, and get penalised for it.