Diesel demonised? &Vs petrol?

troffasky

little_green said:

I've only ever had petrol cars however have sootted a car in looking at getting and it's a diesel (actually a diesel mhev) just wondering if there is anything I should be aware of before making the switch?

Will it feel significantly different to drive? 

I'm worried it would be a silly idea to buy a diesel car as a long term choice. 

One reason a hybrid wouldn't be a sensible choice for long-term ownership is that they are more complex than both combustion-only and electric-only drivetrains, so there is more to go wrong, which implies higher maintenance costs. I don't have the data to back this up though, it's just an intuition.

Yes, I am pretty sure it will feel different to drive.

Whether fairly or not, if Dirty Diesels are demonised, then that's going to impact on residuals, which will increase your total cost of ownership. On the other hand, if the residuals are depressed, then it will cost you less to buy a used one now.

The obvious long-term choice is electric.

AdrianC

troffasky said:

One reason a hybrid wouldn't be a sensible choice for long-term ownership is that they are more complex than both combustion-only and electric-only drivetrains, so there is more to go wrong, which implies higher maintenance costs. I don't have the data to back this up though, it's just an intuition.

Yes, I am pretty sure it will feel different to drive.

Hybrids have been around long enough now that it doesn't seem to be the hybrid drivetrains killing them - it's the usual death-by-a-thousand-papercuts that kills all older cars.

Remember, the first Prius was launched in 1997 (24yrs ago), and the first official UK imports of the second-generation started in 2004 (17yrs ago). The average car on UK roads is 8yo, and the average UK car is just under 14yo when scrapped.

Yes, I am pretty sure it will feel different to drive.

Not really. Especially since the OP's talking about a mild hybrid with a manual box.

jimjames

BOWFER said:

peter3hg said:

BOWFER said:

Grumpy_chap said:

For shorter city journeys, petrol is better than diesel.

Old thinking.
I've already explained new petrols are fitted with GPF and they are just as problematic as DPF in diesels over short journeys.
Pre-GPF petrol, no argument there, they're better for short journeys than diesels.
DPFs have been fitted to diesels for donkeys years now. GPF in petrol are really only the last year or so.

 

An OPF shouldn't be as problematic as a DPF.
Petrols produce less particulates, warm up faster and have higher exhaust temperatures, all of which helps.

Some manufacturers appear to have implemented them poorly (VW, Ford and Honda) but I certainly never noticed the slightest issue in my BMW with an OPF when I was only doing short journeys during COVID.

I didn't notice any DPF issues in my diesel BMW on short journeys, doesn't mean I'd recommend it.
The 'burning rubber' smell of a DPF regen was quite common though, along with the fan staying on when the car was switched off.

That's an interesting observation, I've noticed in my car with DPF that the fan stays on after the engine is off. Is that a known feature of the DPF? I thought there may have been a fault with the car causing it to stay on so it's good if not!

Ectophile

All sorts of things can cause the fan to stay on for a short while, including using the air conditioning, or even driving on a hot day.

BOWFER

jimjames said:

BOWFER said:

peter3hg said:

BOWFER said:

Grumpy_chap said:

For shorter city journeys, petrol is better than diesel.

Old thinking.
I've already explained new petrols are fitted with GPF and they are just as problematic as DPF in diesels over short journeys.
Pre-GPF petrol, no argument there, they're better for short journeys than diesels.
DPFs have been fitted to diesels for donkeys years now. GPF in petrol are really only the last year or so.

 

An OPF shouldn't be as problematic as a DPF.
Petrols produce less particulates, warm up faster and have higher exhaust temperatures, all of which helps.

Some manufacturers appear to have implemented them poorly (VW, Ford and Honda) but I certainly never noticed the slightest issue in my BMW with an OPF when I was only doing short journeys during COVID.

I didn't notice any DPF issues in my diesel BMW on short journeys, doesn't mean I'd recommend it.
The 'burning rubber' smell of a DPF regen was quite common though, along with the fan staying on when the car was switched off.

That's an interesting observation, I've noticed in my car with DPF that the fan stays on after the engine is off. Is that a known feature of the DPF? I thought there may have been a fault with the car causing it to stay on so it's good if not!

It's very often a sign of a regen taking place.
Other signs are lumpy idle and a smell (exactly like burning rubber in BMWs)

Flight3287462

Let me try for the third time.  OP have you read any motoring press reviews and user reviews and drawn up a shortlist?  

AdrianC

Flight3287462 said:

Let me try for the third time.  OP have you read any motoring press reviews and user reviews and drawn up a shortlist?  

No, but they did see one car that was a nice colour.

JenB79

jimjames said:

BOWFER said:

peter3hg said:

BOWFER said:

Grumpy_chap said:

For shorter city journeys, petrol is better than diesel.

Old thinking.
I've already explained new petrols are fitted with GPF and they are just as problematic as DPF in diesels over short journeys.
Pre-GPF petrol, no argument there, they're better for short journeys than diesels.
DPFs have been fitted to diesels for donkeys years now. GPF in petrol are really only the last year or so.

 

An OPF shouldn't be as problematic as a DPF.
Petrols produce less particulates, warm up faster and have higher exhaust temperatures, all of which helps.

Some manufacturers appear to have implemented them poorly (VW, Ford and Honda) but I certainly never noticed the slightest issue in my BMW with an OPF when I was only doing short journeys during COVID.

I didn't notice any DPF issues in my diesel BMW on short journeys, doesn't mean I'd recommend it.
The 'burning rubber' smell of a DPF regen was quite common though, along with the fan staying on when the car was switched off.

That's an interesting observation, I've noticed in my car with DPF that the fan stays on after the engine is off. Is that a known feature of the DPF? I thought there may have been a fault with the car causing it to stay on so it's good if not!

Yep, perfectly normal with a DPF equipped diesel. Smell is worst when the car is brand new as I found out when I bought my A6 40 TDI last year. Almost called the fire brigade after the first regen as regen smell was that bad (thought the engine was on fire lol) but after a quick call to Audi, they said its perfectly normal on a new car and it won't smell as bad on subsequent regens, which indeed has proven to be the case.

little_green

Flight3287462 said:

Let me try for the third time.  OP have you read any motoring press reviews and user reviews and drawn up a shortlist?  

Yes but I'm also not going to buy something I don't like aesthetically and right now Kia ceed is only thing in my budget that I like the look of and can afford unless I were to go older with the other makes/models which is likely to mean more maintenance 

aidan320d

peter3hg said:

BOWFER said:

Grumpy_chap said:

For shorter city journeys, petrol is better than diesel.

Old thinking.
I've already explained new petrols are fitted with GPF and they are just as problematic as DPF in diesels over short journeys.
Pre-GPF petrol, no argument there, they're better for short journeys than diesels.
DPFs have been fitted to diesels for donkeys years now. GPF in petrol are really only the last year or so.

 

An OPF shouldn't be as problematic as a DPF.
Petrols produce less particulates, warm up faster and have higher exhaust temperatures, all of which helps.

Some manufacturers appear to have implemented them poorly (VW, Ford and Honda) but I certainly never noticed the slightest issue in my BMW with an OPF when I was only doing short journeys during COVID.

Modern diesels, for example, a brand new BMW 320d. Pollutes no (measurable) particulate matter or NOx from the exhaust. Which is lower than even the greenest petrol hybrids. I understand this is after the exhaust treatment systems but I doubt there is much particulate matter going through the DPF compared to older, more troublesome diesels. I own a 2017 BMW 320d with an SCR Catalyst. It has 63k miles, no issues at all, I wasn’t expecting any but most say that DPFs give issues after 30k (on some cars). Which I believe is false. From my experience, I think a 2017 BMW 320i (or a brand new one) equipped with a GPF will be dealing with similar enough particulate matter and NOx as a 320d. 

Diesels get too much bad rep as all these spurious claims about modern diesels and being extremely harmful for human health are being based off older pre-Euro 6 (like 15 year old smokey ones) diesels which had considerably higher amounts of NOx and harmful particulate matter. 

Note: I do not intend to restart this fourm but I was reading through this and wanted to voice my opinion/facts.