Renewal fee

crispy_duck

Whilst the advice that it could take months, if not years for an S21 notice to result in an eviction order is legally correct, could this not make it difficult to rent a new property following an eviction? If the agency/landlord of the new property requests a reference from the previous landlord, it isn't going to be a good one is it?

TripleH

It depends if the landlord actually wants the tenant out or if it is the letting agent being economical with the truth to generate more money.

Some landlords and tenants are not clued in with their rights and obligations relying upon letting agents to 'have the knowledge'.

In many cases the landlord will most likely not push for an eviction if it means loosing a reliable tenant and is a bluff by the agent.

Mr_ML

davilown said:

Mr_ML said:

anselld said:

It is not legal.

Slithery said:

Which country are you in?

canaldumidi said:

If England/Wales (not sure about the other 2) it's not legal. You could always pay, get the renewal, then reclaim the fee as per the attached guidance.

Or as suggested above, simply move to a monthly periodic (rolling) tenancy (see link).

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Tenant Fees Act 2019: guidance for tenants (updated September 2020)

England. 
Thanks for your help. I don't think I can move to an ast:
"If you do not wish to extend your tenancy, we would kindly ask that you inform us as soon as possible to allow time to make the required arrangements to terminate your tenancy, re-market the property and return deposits where applicable. If this is the case, please email your notice to xxx"
I'll tell them that's no legal, let's see their answer. 

Unfortunately that’s against the law - you move automatically to an ast regardless of what they may say

Slithery said:

Mr_ML said:

davilown said:

Mr_ML said:

Folks thank you very much again. I'm reading the link now. 
My contract finishes on 24th of November and I'd like to sign another year without paying the fee.
I'll update the thread next Monday. 

Why sign for another year? You don’t have to. As already stated, you automatically revert to a rolling contract. 

I don't want to receive a S21 notice 

Even though it would still take them years to evict you?
I'd go for a rolling contract for the extra flexibility it gives you. It will be much easier to leave when you want if your circumstances change unexpectedly.

MaryNB said:

Mr_ML said:

MaryNB said:

davilown said:

Mr_ML said:

anselld said:

It is not legal.

Slithery said:

Which country are you in?

canaldumidi said:

If England/Wales (not sure about the other 2) it's not legal. You could always pay, get the renewal, then reclaim the fee as per the attached guidance.

Or as suggested above, simply move to a monthly periodic (rolling) tenancy (see link).

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Tenant Fees Act 2019: guidance for tenants (updated September 2020)

England. 
Thanks for your help. I don't think I can move to an ast:
"If you do not wish to extend your tenancy, we would kindly ask that you inform us as soon as possible to allow time to make the required arrangements to terminate your tenancy, re-market the property and return deposits where applicable. If this is the case, please email your notice to xxx"
I'll tell them that's no legal, let's see their answer. 

Unfortunately that’s against the law - you move automatically to an ast regardless of what they may say

OP is already on an AST. It is always an AST, it just starts as fixed and automatically becomes periodic after the fixed term if not renewed or ended by the tenant. 

Mr_ML said:

davilown said:

Mr_ML said:

Folks thank you very much again. I'm reading the link now. 
My contract finishes on 24th of November and I'd like to sign another year without paying the fee.
I'll update the thread next Monday. 

Why sign for another year? You don’t have to. As already stated, you automatically revert to a rolling contract. 

I don't want to receive a S21 notice 

We're just advising you on that as a worst case scenario. Why don't you get in contact with the landlord and see if they are happy for you to continue long term with a periodic tenancy? Say the letting agency is telling you they will terminate the contract (which they are not legally allowed do) if you don't renew. And that they are illegally trying to charge you renewal fees. 

The letting agent can only issue an S21 if the landlord agrees. The letting agency wants to to renew so they can charge the landlord more fees. While they cannot charge you as the tenant, they can charge the landlord. It also will cost the landlord a lot of money to find new tenants and as someone else has pointed out, it's unlikely they'll try to get rid of you if you're a decent tenant who always pays their rent. 

Thanks, honestly I'd rather move to the rolling contract. I feel "stupid" because I wasn't aware of this AST contract, I've always accepted the new fix contract (with my previous landlord), I always thought my options were new contract or leave the property. 

I have had letting agents in the past tell me that I have to renew the contract. It was always worded as if renewing or moving out were my only options. They get more money this way. 

The agency's wording to you is specifically designed to trick you into giving notice if you don't want to renew because they know it's the only way to get you out quickly. If you refuse to leave it could take months, maybe more than a year with current court backlogs. A landlord agreeing to go down that route if you are a decent paying tenant would be baffling but it is the worst case scenario.

I'm back! Big mistake, I signed this:

"4.1 payments

4.1.5 to pay £150 inclusive of VAT in respect of each extension of the Tenancy. Should any extension or renewal agreement be negotiated or arranged the Renewal Fee is to be paid by the Tenant, even is for any reason the extension is not completed. "

I know I should have read my contract ...

Anyway, I'm not willing to pay the fee so my only option now is to move to the rolling contract, right? 

Gavin83

What they choose to write in their contract is irrelevant, they still can't charge you a fee for this. If they try to I'd remind them of their obligations under the Tenants Fee Act.

Mr_ML

Gavin83 said:

What they choose to write in their contract is irrelevant, they still can't charge you a fee for this. If they try to I'd remind them of their obligations under the Tenants Fee Act.

Thanks I imagined this would be the case 

canaldumidi

The Tenant Fees Act over-rules anything they put in the contract.

Robbo66

I'm back! Big mistake, I signed this:

"4.1 payments

4.1.5 to pay £150 inclusive of VAT in respect of each extension of the Tenancy. Should any extension or renewal agreement be negotiated or arranged the Renewal Fee is to be paid by the Tenant, even is for any reason the extension is not completed. "

I know I should have read my contract ...

Anyway, I'm not willing to pay the fee so my only option now is to move to the rolling contract, right? 

Doesn't matter that you signed a contract with that clause, it is unenforceable and cannot be charged

gingercordial

Mr_ML said:

I'm back! Big mistake, I signed this:

"4.1 payments

4.1.5 to pay £150 inclusive of VAT in respect of each extension of the Tenancy. Should any extension or renewal agreement be negotiated or arranged the Renewal Fee is to be paid by the Tenant, even is for any reason the extension is not completed. "

I know I should have read my contract ...

Anyway, I'm not willing to pay the fee so my only option now is to move to the rolling contract, right? 

They are liars, trying to get money out of you, and probably out of the landlord too.

Since 1 June 2020 it has been illegal to charge renewal fees, no matter what you might have signed.  (Just so you know, in this kind of contract situation, they are a business so should "know better" than you as a non-business person, so no judge will take their side when they have tricked you into agreeing to pay something illegal.)  

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/letting_agent_fees_for_tenants

They also probably want to get you onto a fixed term contract so they can charge the landlord a big fee now.  When I was renting, I looked at the LA's terms for landlord fees and they charge the landlord their management fee upfront for the whole length of the contract.  So if I'd signed for 12 months, the LA would have charged the landlord their % of the whole year's rent right away.  If I'd stayed on rolling, they would only have charged the landlord each month as it went along.  So no surprise the LA kept telling us all that fixed 12 month contracts were the only option...

Mr_ML

Gavin83 said:

What they choose to write in their contract is irrelevant, they still can't charge you a fee for this. If they try to I'd remind them of their obligations under the Tenants Fee Act.

canaldumidi said:

The Tenant Fees Act over-rules anything they put in the contract.

Robbo66 said:

I'm back! Big mistake, I signed this:

"4.1 payments

4.1.5 to pay £150 inclusive of VAT in respect of each extension of the Tenancy. Should any extension or renewal agreement be negotiated or arranged the Renewal Fee is to be paid by the Tenant, even is for any reason the extension is not completed. "

I know I should have read my contract ...

Anyway, I'm not willing to pay the fee so my only option now is to move to the rolling contract, right? 

Doesn't matter that you signed a contract with that clause, it is unenforceable and cannot be charged

gingercordial said:

Mr_ML said:

I'm back! Big mistake, I signed this:

"4.1 payments

4.1.5 to pay £150 inclusive of VAT in respect of each extension of the Tenancy. Should any extension or renewal agreement be negotiated or arranged the Renewal Fee is to be paid by the Tenant, even is for any reason the extension is not completed. "

I know I should have read my contract ...

Anyway, I'm not willing to pay the fee so my only option now is to move to the rolling contract, right? 

They are liars, trying to get money out of you, and probably out of the landlord too.

Since 1 June 2020 it has been illegal to charge renewal fees, no matter what you might have signed.  (Just so you know, in this kind of contract situation, they are a business so should "know better" than you as a non-business person, so no judge will take their side when they have tricked you into agreeing to pay something illegal.)  

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/letting_agent_fees_for_tenants

They also probably want to get you onto a fixed term contract so they can charge the landlord a big fee now.  When I was renting, I looked at the LA's terms for landlord fees and they charge the landlord their management fee upfront for the whole length of the contract.  So if I'd signed for 12 months, the LA would have charged the landlord their % of the whole year's rent right away.  If I'd stayed on rolling, they would only have charged the landlord each month as it went along.  So no surprise the LA kept telling us all that fixed 12 month contracts were the only option...

I'm back for more advice. This is their answer:
"Good morning,

 

Thank you for your email,

 

We have this agreement down as a NHA which is a company let. This means that the fee is chargeable and would be required before we can proceed with the renewal.

 

Many thanks"

Thanks again. 

canaldumidi

So they are claiming this is a Non-Housing Act let because it is a company let.

* how is the contract described?

* is the property provided to you as in any way related to your work? eg are you an agricultural worker provided with accomodation by your employer?

They may simply be trying to circumvent the Housing Act by sayig it is not an AST, or it may genuinely not be an AST. We would need more information.

See

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/part/I/chapter/I#commentary-c12865791

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/schedule/1