Renewal fee

Mr_ML

Hi folks, I thought renewal fees were banned, my agency sent me this email:
"... Your landlord’s offer is to extend your tenancy for a further fixed term of 12 months at a rental of £X per calendar month.

If you wish to accept your landlord’s proposal a payment of £125.00 (inc VAT) is required to cover the cost of extending your tenancy and this payment can be made via debit card. Once we have received your payment it will enable us to finalise your extension."

Is this fee legal?

TIA

davilown

I’m not sure whether it’s legal or not, but why don’t you say no and continue on an AST? That way you don’t pay anymore and sleep safe in the knowledge that you can’t be evicted for even longer!

anselld

It is not legal.

Slithery

Which country are you in?

canaldumidi

If England/Wales (not sure about the other 2) it's not legal. You could always pay, get the renewal, then reclaim the fee as per the attached guidance.

Or as suggested above, simply move to a monthly periodic (rolling) tenancy (see link).

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Tenant Fees Act 2019: guidance for tenants (updated September 2020)

Mr_ML

anselld said:

It is not legal.

Slithery said:

Which country are you in?

canaldumidi said:

If England/Wales (not sure about the other 2) it's not legal. You could always pay, get the renewal, then reclaim the fee as per the attached guidance.

Or as suggested above, simply move to a monthly periodic (rolling) tenancy (see link).

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Tenant Fees Act 2019: guidance for tenants (updated September 2020)

England. 
Thanks for your help. I don't think I can move to an ast:
"If you do not wish to extend your tenancy, we would kindly ask that you inform us as soon as possible to allow time to make the required arrangements to terminate your tenancy, re-market the property and return deposits where applicable. If this is the case, please email your notice to xxx"
I'll tell them that's no legal, let's see their answer. 

grumiofoundation

If you do not sign a new fixed term tenancy (what they mean by extend your tenancy) you will move onto a periodic tenancy. Landlord/agent cannot prevent this, whatever they say.

Read link provided above for detail.

Landlord/agents sound like idiots - worth checking if everything else is up to scratch - e.g. your deposit was protected

If you want to sign a new fixed term tenancy then your options are to

a) bring to agents attention that fee is illegal but say you are happy to sign (they can probably still charge landlord a fee so they won't be upset with this)

b) pay fee and then report them and claim back. (From link landlord can't serve section 21 if they've charged a banned fee...)

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/letting_agent_fees_for_tenants

MaryNB

Mr_ML said:

anselld said:

It is not legal.

Slithery said:

Which country are you in?

canaldumidi said:

If England/Wales (not sure about the other 2) it's not legal. You could always pay, get the renewal, then reclaim the fee as per the attached guidance.

Or as suggested above, simply move to a monthly periodic (rolling) tenancy (see link).

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Tenant Fees Act 2019: guidance for tenants (updated September 2020)

England. 
Thanks for your help. I don't think I can move to an ast:
"If you do not wish to extend your tenancy, we would kindly ask that you inform us as soon as possible to allow time to make the required arrangements to terminate your tenancy, re-market the property and return deposits where applicable. If this is the case, please email your notice to xxx"
I'll tell them that's no legal, let's see their answer. 

Fee is illegal in England.

You are on an AST (assured shorthold tenancy) already. Your tenancy does not end at the end of the fixed term. It automatically becomes rolling. Neither you, the letting agency nor the landlord has to do anything. It is the default position. You are under no obligation to renew the tenancy. You remain a tenant under the same rights as during the fixed tenancy. The only thing that changes is that your tenancy rolls month to month and you have to give notice that is equivalent to one rental period (or two if the contract says this is required when the tenancy becomes periodic).

Remind your letting agency that they cannot terminate your contract by law, neither can the landlord. Only you or a court can do this.

They want you to give notice because they know this is the only way for you to leave without them going to court. You do not have to give notice if you want to stay. Once you give notice you then have to leave at the end of it.
That wording from the agency is designed to mislead you into giving notice if you don't renew and hence giving up your right to live at the property.

If you stay beyond the fixed term and your contract becomes period (rolling) the only way they can have your tenancy agreement terminated is by issuing you an S21 notice (currently 4 months, 2 months from October) and, when the notice expires, applying to the court for an eviction order. This will take many many months. If you do not give notice to leave you do not have to leave until the court issues an eviction order. If this does happen you may be liable for the court fees of something like £350 (you'll need to check this if it comes to it) but your right to reside at the property remains until this eviction order is issued. 

I would be surprised if the landlord agrees to have an S21 issued it you stay because they'll have to pay all the remarketing fees and all the fees associated with setting up a new tenancy. They could be petty though and not be happy letting you roll month to month.

canaldumidi

Mr_ML said:

anselld said:

It is not legal.

Slithery said:

Which country are you in?

canaldumidi said:

If England/Wales (not sure about the other 2) it's not legal. You could always pay, get the renewal, then reclaim the fee as per the attached guidance.

Or as suggested above, simply move to a monthly periodic (rolling) tenancy (see link).

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Tenant Fees Act 2019: guidance for tenants (updated September 2020)

England. 
Thanks for your help. I don't think I can move to an ast:
"If you do not wish to extend your tenancy, we would kindly ask that you inform us as soon as possible to allow time to make the required arrangements to terminate your tenancy, re-market the property and return deposits where applicable. If this is the case, please email your notice to xxx"
I'll tell them that's no legal, let's see their answer. 

You already have an Assured Shorthold Tenancy (AST). Did you read the link?

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

doodling

Hi,

Your choices are:

1. Leave at the end of the fixed tenancy.  In that case no notice is required (although it is polite to give it).
2. Not sign another tenancy agreement, remain in the property and therefore move onto a rolling tenancy.
3. Sign a new tenancy for another fixed period, at no cost to yourself.

(1) and (2) are effectively rights and cannot be taken away from you by the estate agent or landlord.  (3) is not a right, but the "at no cost to yourself" bit is.

Note however that it is also the landlord's right to issue a section 21 notice to indicate that they wish to seek possession of the property from a court if you are not in a fixed term so in the case of (2) you might receive one of those which might mean that in due course a court might require you to leave the property - my understanding is that in many areas there is sufficient backlog in the courts that you might have to leave the property by early 2023 or later if the landlord went down this route.  It would be a foolish landlord to do this of course as presumably you are a good tenant and pay your rent on time, if the landlord replaced you with someone else they run the risk that your replacement might not be so good.

If the estate agent or landlord proposes something else which isn't one of the above then that is another possibility, but it is in addition to the options above, not instead of any of them.

It appears that the estate agent / landlord is not presenting you with all your options and is trying to force you to choose between only the options they present.

MaryNB

MaryNB said:

Mr_ML said:

anselld said:

It is not legal.

Slithery said:

Which country are you in?

canaldumidi said:

If England/Wales (not sure about the other 2) it's not legal. You could always pay, get the renewal, then reclaim the fee as per the attached guidance.

Or as suggested above, simply move to a monthly periodic (rolling) tenancy (see link).

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Tenant Fees Act 2019: guidance for tenants (updated September 2020)

England. 
Thanks for your help. I don't think I can move to an ast:
"If you do not wish to extend your tenancy, we would kindly ask that you inform us as soon as possible to allow time to make the required arrangements to terminate your tenancy, re-market the property and return deposits where applicable. If this is the case, please email your notice to xxx"
I'll tell them that's no legal, let's see their answer. 

Fee is illegal in England.

You are on an AST (assured shorthold tenancy) already. Your tenancy does not end at the end of the fixed term. It automatically becomes rolling. Neither you, the letting agency nor the landlord has to do anything. It is the default position. You are under no obligation to renew the tenancy. You remain a tenant under the same rights as during the fixed tenancy. The only thing that changes is that your tenancy rolls month to month and you have to give notice that is equivalent to one rental period (or two if the contract says this is required when the tenancy becomes periodic).

Remind your letting agency that they cannot terminate your contract by law, neither can the landlord. Only you or a court can do this.

They want you to give notice because they know this is the only way for you to leave without them going to court. You do not have to give notice if you want to stay. Once you give notice you then have to leave at the end of it.
That wording from the agency is designed to mislead you into giving notice if you don't renew and hence giving up your right to live at the property.

If you stay beyond the fixed term and your contract becomes period (rolling) the only way they can have your tenancy agreement terminated is by issuing you an S21 notice (currently 4 months, 2 months from October) and, when the notice expires, applying to the court for an eviction order. This will take many many months. If you do not give notice to leave you do not have to leave until the court issues an eviction order. If this does happen you may be liable for the court fees of something like £350 (you'll need to check this if it comes to it) but your right to reside at the property remains until this eviction order is issued. 

I would be surprised if the landlord agrees to have an S21 issued it you stay because they'll have to pay all the remarketing fees and all the fees associated with setting up a new tenancy. They could be petty though and not be happy letting you roll month to month.

I should clarify that most of my post applies if you don't want to renew for 12 months. That's fine if you are certain you'll stay but significantly less flexible if you need to move before the 12 months are up. Regardless of your next step, the renewal fee is illegal.

If they do at any point issue an S21(which is not an eviction notice, it's a notice seeking possession which just means they would like the property back, they can't take it back without an court issued order), search online for an S21 checklist. If, for example, they never gave you an EPC, or gas safety cert (if you have a gas supply) the notice is invalid. The checklist is quite long, they have to get everything right.

Given how underhanded your agency is acting, it's probably worth making you aware what to do when it comes to getting your deposit back when you do decide to leave. If they continue being scumbags and try to take more of your deposit than you owe, claim your deposit back directly from the deposit protection scheme where it is held. The agency or landlord will have to justify all the deductions. You should take photos when you leave as proof of how it was left (and I hope you took photos when you moved in).