What to do after Survey...lots of #3's

kayen

Hi good people 

Ievel 3 survey has been completed - mid terrace 1900's property.  The report has given several 3's (and 2's).... trying to digest it all.   

Surveyor has said 'this property is in poor condition and now requires extensive repair and refurbishment' & said he's surprised its mortgagable.   
Fortunately I already have a mortgage offer, and I believe due to the favourable LTV.  Bank did a desktop valuation only.

I offered well and above asking but within what was comfortable knowing I'd need to spend to do some work .. but not as much as the survey seems to indicate.  Would be great to get peoples thoughts about the below to help me think about what next, ideas of costs etc.     Thank you in advance 

The 3's are:

OUTSIDE

Chimney stacks    (3)         There is a chimney stack on the left party wall, constructed of brick. This was rendered up to the over-sailing course. The top over-sailing courses are of face brickwork, with rendered top to the stack. The stack serves four flues to either side, with four terracotta chimney pots remaining. There are lead flashings and soakers. The flashing was loose to the rear elevation. The chimney pots were slightly uneven and weathered. I recommend that a competent builder be commissioned to tests all chimney pots and flaunchings and to re-bed/replace as necessary and all flues should be capped off with terracotta pepper-pots. Chimney breasts have been partly removed internally

Roof coverings   (3)      The main roof is double pitched and clad with sand-faced interlocking concrete tiles with half round ridge tiles. I noted that there was slight deflection to the main pitched roof. There are party parapet walls to both sides. These are constructed of 225mm brickwork, rendered to the inner face, and with saddleback clay copings. The copings were noted to be uneven, and should be tested and re-bedded on a suitable dampproof course as necessary. There is a Velux skylight to the rear elevation of this roof. The ridge is clad with half round tiles. To the rear, there is a flat felted roof. This has been laid in a DIY manner, particularly to the rear eaves. There is a small polycarbonate dome light to this roof. There are party parapet walls with the parapet to the left hand side higher. The right parapet was partly overlaid with butyl sheet. The felt has a mineral finish, which was somewhat uneven. A number of tiles were stacked on the felt. There are up-stands to the roof with lead soaker to the left parapet, with the the felt laid under the coping to the right parapet, and at the rear of the left parapet. The render to the left parapet was cracked and blown. When the property is refurbished I recommend that the felt roof coverings are stripped and replaced with a new high performance felt with adequate provision for the ventilation and insulation of the void. To the front bay, there is a hipped roof, clad with plain concrete tiles, with small saddleback hip tiling. There is a cement mortar fillet to the junction with the main wall. These are prone to expansion and contraction and subsequent cracking, and should therefore be hacked off and replaced with a new lead flashing, chased, wedged and pointed into the brickwork.

Conservatory and porches (3)    A conservatory has been constructed to the rear in 112mm brickwork, with timber framing above. The timber framing was in very poor rotted condition. The roof is hipped with timber bearers and double skim plastic cladding. There are aluminium double hung sliding sash windows to either side of the conservatory, one overlooking the adjacent property, and the left hand side one overlooking a block wall. Walls to the conservatory were butt jointed to the original wall, and these opened up due to differential movement. There are double doors to the rear of the conservatory in uVPC. I now recommend that the conservatory is demolished. There is a porch to the front constructed of hardwood frame with external ship-lap boarding, and a timber door, glazed with Georgian wired glass with fixed pane glazing to either side. The roof is mono-pitched and clad with tiles over felt, with a lead flashing to the ridge. There were no rainwater goods. Extensive rot was noted to the softwood. Demolition of the porch is recommended.

Other joinery & finishes (3)    The fascias and soffits are of softwood and plywood. It will be necessary to properly prepare or renew all softwood external joinery affected by wet rot with pre-treated timbers, prior to external re-decoration.

Permanent outbuildings & other structures (3)  There is a small storage shed to the rear, constructed of brick and block-work, with softwood joinery, in generally poor condition. There is a flat felted roof which has partially collapsed. There is a large deciduous tree growing immediately behind this store. Although demolition is recommended, if the store is to be retained it will be necessary to replace the roof, and to overhaul all joinery. The brickwork had also settled over the window due to lack of lintel.

INSIDE

Walls and partitions   (3)     The spine wall had been removed to the ground floor, with a support beam above, with two piers to either side of the party wall. Your legal advisor should confirm that building regulation consent was obtained for this work. The wall to the rear of the staircase was of solid construction to the ground floor, and timber stud to the first floor. To the first floor there is a brick partition above the beam, but the other partitions are of timber stud. The bathroom partition is of timber stud. The settlement of the property has resulted in distortion of the partitions and subsequent sloping door frame heads to the first floor. External and party walls are solid plastered. 

A degree of cracked and blown plaster was noted and you must anticipate a degree of re-plastering on the refurbishment of the property. Tests were made with electronic moisture meter and evidence of rising damp penetration was noted to the original rear wall between the kitchen/bathroom and reception room. The walls to the house should be inspected by a competent timber and damp specialist and all works recommended in the report should be undertaken to include the hacking off of the damaged plaster and the replacement of the plaster with a renovating cement based plaster.

Floors    (3)     The upper floors are of timber joist construction. The floorboards were exposed to the front bedroom. The joists span from front to rear, bearing onto the spine wall. 

The main ground floor is of suspended timber construction. There is one sub-floor vent. The floorboards are exposed to the reception rooms. Over the years the boards have been cut in order to facilitate re-wiring or radiator installation. When the floors are renewed the boards should be inspected, and all badly cut or split boards replaced with new boards to span a minimum of three joists. All timbers adjacent to damp walls should be inspected and replaced with pre-treated timbers if necessary. 

There is a tile effect floor covering to the kitchen area, and a tiled floor to the concrete floor of the bathroom. There is no sub-floor ventilation to the rear. The floor to the rear section of the reception room was slightly concave.        Deflection of the bay bressummer has resulted in a concave floor to the front bedroom.

Fireplaces, chimney breasts & flues (3)        The chimney breasts have been removed, apart from to the front of the reception room. The breasts in the loft room were boarded over, and subsequently I was unable to confirm if the breasts were adequately supported. When the property is renovated it will be necessary to expose the remaining sections of chimney breast and to provide adequate mild steel beam support in accordance with current building regulations. The chimney breast remains with a cast iron fireplace with alabaster surround and mantle and tiled infill and hearth. Obviously this cannot be used for solid or gas fired appliances.

Built-in fittings (built-in kitchen and other fittings, not including appliances)     (3)      The kitchen is fitted with floor and wall mounted cabinets, with doors and drawer fronts requiring easing and adjustment. There is a laminate worktop, which was damaged to the perimeter of the sink, which is stainless steel and circular, with loose tap. Replacement of fittings is now recommended. There is a five ring gas hob. The wall cabinets above extend slightly over the hob and these should be removed. 

Heating (3)        Hot water is provided to pressed steel radiators, fitted with individual thermostatic valves, via the Ferroli Medina 32C HE fanflue, gas-fired, wall-mounted, condensing combination boiler in the kitchen. The flue discharges directly over the adjacent property, and when the property is renovated, the boiler should be repositioned. I did not see evidence that this boiler has been serviced in the past 12 months. This is a safety hazard. Unless the vendor can provide the relevant documentation, the boiler should not be used until it has been inspected by a registered GasSafe heating engineer.

FreeBear

kayen said:

Walls and partitions   (3)    Tests were made with electronic moisture meter and evidence of rising damp penetration was noted to the original rear wall between the kitchen/bathroom and reception room. The walls to the house should be inspected by a competent timber and damp specialist and all works recommended in the report should be undertaken to include the hacking off of the damaged plaster and the replacement of the plaster with a renovating cement based plaster.

Oh dear, how to wreck a property - Call in a PCA surveyor salesman and then spend £XXXX on waterproof cement which will mask the problem (if there is one) for a few years.

If you must get a damp expert in, find one that is independent (i.e. doesn't work for a damp proofing company), is experienced in older properties and has no links with the PCA.

If there is damp in the wall along with rot in the floor timbers, it is more likely to be down to poor sub-floor ventilation and/or a poorly layed concrete slab in the extension - Your money would be better spent in installing air vents front & back every 2.4m and investigating the floor slab.

With concrete roof tiles (were they used to replace clay tiles or slates ?), I'd be concerned with the walls spreading at the top. This is a far more serious problem than a bit of damp. Perhaps call on a structural engineer to have a real close look at it.

canaldumidi

You have a detailed survey, highligting various areas that require remedial work. Some more urgent than others.

As FreeBear says, the damp should be approached with caution, fixing the cause of the damp (if indeed any) rather than masking it with injection treatment or waterproof plaster etc.

You are takimg on a property that requires some money, time and understanding. Is that what you want?

doodling

Hi,

kayen said:

Heating (3)        Hot water is provided to pressed steel radiators, fitted with individual thermostatic valves, via the Ferroli Medina 32C HE fanflue, gas-fired, wall-mounted, condensing combination boiler in the kitchen. The flue discharges directly over the adjacent property, and when the property is renovated, the boiler should be repositioned. I did not see evidence that this boiler has been serviced in the past 12 months. This is a safety hazard. Unless the vendor can provide the relevant documentation, the boiler should not be used until it has been inspected by a registered GasSafe heating engineer.

I would be asking the surveyor to elaborate on his safety concerns.  Not servicing a modern boiler is not a safety concern (despite what the boiler sales / servicing industry would have us believe) - many things would need to go wrong before there was any risk to life.  Either the surveyor has spotted a genuine safety concern or he is exceeding his competence.

If the surveyor is simply flagging up that it hasn't been serviced recently then fair enough, but to claim it is unsafe is (unless he has evidence otherwise) somewhat alarmist.

Edited to add:  Perhaps the surveyor is flagging up that the boiler discharging over the adjacent property is unsafe.  Without seeing the setting it is difficult to comment but it may not be actually unsafe, it could however to a trespass on the adjacent property and you could end up with a neighbour dispute as soon as you move in if the neighbour wants you to stop trespassing.

kayen

@FreeBear If there is damp in the wall along with rot in the floor timbers, it is more likely to be down to poor sub-floor ventilation and/or a poorly layed concrete slab in the extension - Your money would be better spent in installing air vents front & back every 2.4m and investigating the floor slab.

thanks@FreeBear, makes sense... the surveyor did say there is was only one sub-floor vent/  no sub-floor ventilation to the rear. 

Installing air vents.. is this type of work disruptive?   eg do all the floor boards need to be removed or just some

Any idea of costs? - ground floor area of floor boards is approx 3.5m x 7.5m

kayen

 @canaldumidi    You are takimg on a property that requires some money, time and understanding. Is that what you want?

.. the big question!  Time I have, understanding I can learn but money... I'm trying to get a sense of the spend I could be looking at.

kayen

@doodling   If the surveyor is simply flagging up that it hasn't been serviced recently then fair enough, but to claim it is unsafe is (unless he has evidence otherwise) somewhat alarmist.

I did wonder this

Edited to add:  Perhaps the surveyor is flagging up that the boiler discharging over the adjacent property is unsafe.  Without seeing the setting it is difficult to comment but it may not be actually unsafe, it could however to a trespass on the adjacent property and you could end up with a neighbour dispute as soon as you move in if the neighbour wants you to stop trespassing.

But yes, I will see if I can more details on this..

Windofchange

About the same amount of 3's as we had with our level 2 survey a couple of years back. Ignored it largely, but it did make me aware of a few things that I wouldn't have otherwise been worried about, so probably worth a bit of cash, but not the 700 quid we paid. Lots of this could be an issue but we couldn't fully see it so we'd suggest you get it checked out prior to exchange. Ours is a late victorian terrace, so went into it thinking there is bound to be something needing a bit of TLC. 2 years later and not a peep so far, so fingers crossed...

FreeBear

kayen said:

@FreeBear If there is damp in the wall along with rot in the floor timbers, it is more likely to be down to poor sub-floor ventilation and/or a poorly layed concrete slab in the extension - Your money would be better spent in installing air vents front & back every 2.4m and investigating the floor slab.

thanks@FreeBear, makes sense... the surveyor did say there is was only one sub-floor vent/  no sub-floor ventilation to the rear. 

Installing air vents.. is this type of work disruptive?   eg do all the floor boards need to be removed or just some

Any idea of costs? - ground floor area of floor boards is approx 3.5m x 7.5m

There should be air vents at the rear. If there is a concrete slab in the extension, fitting vents would involve putting ductwork under the concrete floor.Whilst it might be possible to bore a horizontal hole under the floor, it would be much easier to cut a trench through the slab - Messy, dirty, and opens up a whole can of problems, especially if there is cables or pipes under there. In all probability, it may not be cost effective or even viable.

kayen

@Windofchange   About the same amount of 3's as we had with our level 2 survey a couple of years back. Ignored it largely, but it did make me aware of a few things that I wouldn't have otherwise been worried about, so probably worth a bit of cash, but not the 700 quid we paid. Lots of this could be an issue but we couldn't fully see it so we'd suggest you get it checked out prior to exchange. Ours is a late victorian terrace, so went into it thinking there is bound to be something needing a bit of TLC. 2 years later and not a peep so far, so fingers crossed...

... hard to figure what to do.  Can see that the 3's on the survey haven't happened overnight and will have to wait to a greater or lesser degree depending on finances to do the works.    But I hadn't realised the extent or the cummulative issues that look massive.   So my offer above asking (many bids from other buyers) seems uncomfortably high given I'll need to spend much more to remediate- hadn't bargained on this. Had expected some work needed but not this amount. 

Do people have much success with negotiating after a negative surveys..how to go about this?   

dimbo61

Has the property been on the market for long ?
Lots of Interest but if they also had the same survey which has cost you £4/5/600 would they also Walk away from the purchase ?
Is the vendor aware of the work needed ? Leaking roof or major structural problems they have ignored !
Time to make a decision before you spend any more money ?
Can you get a structural engineer in to look at the serious issues.
New boiler £3,000 fitted IF needed ?
New roof £5,000+ IF needed

Complete rewire to 18th edition £3,500/5,000 to include alarm system, security lights and mains wired interlinked smoke alarms !
New kitchen ?
New bathroom/s ?
Replastering of rooms ?
New windows and doors ?
We have spent over £25,000 in last 3/4 years on our Victorian terraced house in Manchester