How much was my house worth in 1991??

sandyben

Bear with me - another newbie.
I have a very particular question about valuation banding. We are about to move as tenants into a turn of the century cottage which is part of a huge country estate. The cottage forms part of the estate and was never, nor ever will be, sold as a single entity. It is almost uninhabitable and we have taken a long repairing lease at a very cheap rent. I couldnt believe it when I saw the Council Tax band was "D" at £1330 pa.

As its never been bought or sold and the neighbours are all part of the estate, I just don't know where to start. Has anybody faced this problem? There is no heating apart from open fire, it has a septic tank so no mains drainage, there certainly aren't any street lights or any other amenities. Can I base valuation challenge on lack of amenities?

Somebody please help .......

vivatifosi

Hi sandyben,

I'd have an informal conversation with the VOA and ask their opinion. There is an assumed level of "reasonable state of repair" for all homes, irrespective of their condition. When I was challenging my banding they would not take my evidence into account, even though I had two full structural surveys outlining the problems.

Yours would very likely have been a difficult property for the VOA to value if there is no sales history on which to base any findings on. You could put in a Freedom of Information request to see how they arrived at your banding and see what that brings back.

darich

UPDATE.
I've just sent an email to the assessor enclosing a copy of my letter dated 7th February where i requested info under the FOI Act.

I do have a question though.........I know my house was bought for 35k in may 87.
If he comes back and uses that as a reason for saying it was worth atleast 58k in April 91, how do i respond?
I can't simply use the same numbers and say the house wasn't worth 58k. I think i'll need something more. i can't say that it proves nothing because i've used the same argument to say the house wasn't worth 58k.

Any thoughts anyone?

wayyny

darich wrote: »

Hopefully this is the right place – it’s more about house price than council tax.

I’m currently waiting to hear from the appeals panel regarding my council tax banding appeal.
I’ve challenged their E banding (58-80k) and think I should be D (45-58k). I’ve used the Nationwide house price guide and worked backwards from our valuation in March 2006 when we bought the house (135k) to 1991 and get a value of 51k which puts it comfortably in band D.
I’ve also found out what the previous owners paid for my house when they bought it – 35K in May 1987. Using that value and working forward, the value comes out as just under 48k which is once again comfortably in Band D.

My question is, can I find a more accurate guide to the price of my house so I can submit it to the appeals panel when they come looking for my evidence? Is the above enough?
I’m aware that in the late 80s the interest rates headed towards 15% and house prices took a tumble or at least stopped increasing. How can I check what effect that had on house prices?

For us to be in Band E the house prices would have had to increase by something like 13% per year through that massive hike in interest rates which I believe is pretty much impossible, but how can I prove it?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
D

Try contacting your local inland revenue office and speaking to the valuations officer they have massive records of all houses sold and dates for obvious reasons .Also they should be very helpful.If you have any success please let me and others know.Wayyny.

darich

Update on progress.

I did my research on the Register of Scotland website and found 7 houses identical to mine within 200m radius that had sold a couple of years either side of 1991. Best examples were selling 60k in Nov 1996 and 1994. Under FOI i asked the assessor to prove my house was valued accuratelyand he rather disappointingly said he didn't have to prove anything. His evidence amounted to one house like mine and another smaller one. In my opinion my evidence is much stronger.

In my last letter i stated that i felt my house's band had been merely estimated and quoted some of his previous letters that indicated that to me. I finished by saying i had no further evidence and awaited the decision of the appeals panel.

That was in early June and so far I've heard nothing. I don't want to be too quick in asking for a decision so i'll let things go for a few more weeks and post back what happens.

If we're successful it means we'll get a refund of around £30 for every month we've paid council tax here - approx 20months. So if I'm successful i'll have a nice little windfall.

I'll let you all know how i get on.

Thanks
David

lincroft1710

Used to work for VOA (in England) dealing with CT appeals. The VOA has details of virtually every property sale in the country, however the information is confidential, is not subject to FOI, but relevant information may be disclosed where there is a valid appeal (England and Wales). Where we could compare sales of the same house on different dates we found house price indices generally inaccurate, worst cases 20% out. As the Scottish process is different to Eng/Welsh, can't offer much helpful advice I'm afraid, but wish you well in your endeavours.

darich

Another update folks.

I received a letter from the appeals panel which stated that since my appeal was started more than 6months after i bought the house (approx 7.5months) all they can make a judgement on is whether the appeal is valid.

The letter states that since it was outwith the 6month time limit, it is an invalid appeal and that it has been dismissed. It also said that on a point of law they cannot judge on whether the banding is correct or not.
It states that if I'm not happy with their decision then i can appeal to the court of session but only on a point of law.

I'm at a bit of a loss now and I'm stuck.
How do i convince them that my banding is incorrect and at least re-assess it?
Would really appreciate some help on this
thanks

baileysbattlebus

darich wrote: »

Another update folks.

I received a letter from the appeals panel which stated that since my appeal was started more than 6months after i bought the house (approx 7.5months) all they can make a judgement on is whether the appeal is valid.

The letter states that since it was outwith the 6month time limit, it is an invalid appeal and that it has been dismissed. It also said that on a point of law they cannot judge on whether the banding is correct or not.
It states that if I'm not happy with their decision then i can appeal to the court of session but only on a point of law.

I'm at a bit of a loss now and I'm stuck.
How do i convince them that my banding is incorrect and at least re-assess it?
Would really appreciate some help on this
thanks

We appealed our CT banding about 13 years after buying the house - although they do try and tell you it has to be within 6 months - I think I read on here that the 6 month limit was something put about by the councils and not lawful (in England, not sure about Scotland)- we had been fobbed off by the council after we moved in and didn't take it any further. Until about 2 years ago.

We looked at the other council tax bands in our street and didn't try and find out the original valuation.
As I remember there were 3 houses in band F, including ours, the rest were in band D, where we thought ours should have been. About 3 or 4 others should have been in band F that were in band D - 5 bed dectached.

We got about £3k back, and were rebanded into E, I looked at the bandings in the street this year and now there are no band D's, only E and F, so our gain was virtually every one elses loss.

I think someone stood at the top of the street and did the valuation for the whole street.

Have you looked at the bandings for the rest of your street?
If houses the same as yours have a lower banding than you (as was the case for us) it is obvious someone is in the wrong banding - but it might not be you.

Have you checked for bandings here http://www.saa.gov.uk

Just put in your post code.

darich

Thanks BaileysBattlebus

The other houses in my street that are identical to mine are banded E like mine is but that's only another 2 houses. I have evidence of another 7 identical houses within 250m radius that are banded D. I believe the houses in my street are in the wrong band but I'm not about to fight other people's battle for them.

I've used the identical houses that are within the 250m along with my own house projecting the price back from what we paid and forward from what the previous owner bought it for.
In these examples it points to Band D.

My problem is that if the assessor's say that I'm outwith the 6month limit and they're the ones who decide the band then I have to convince them to change it despite being over the time limit.
I know it's happened in the past to many people and to an entire street in the Borders Council recently but I have to convince my assessor to change my banding. And since I've already gone to appeal and he's told them it's invalid they've simply ruled that he's right - it is an invalid appeal.

I'd love to know who I can write to or contact to find out how I get my house rebanded since I've compiled the above info.

I'd really appreciate some help.
I'd be willing to throw in a couple of free poster size prints from my website if someone can give me a template letter and contact that got me re-banded!!!

many thanks

lincroft1710

Unfortunately if assessor does have actual 91 sale(s) as evidence, it's considered more pertinent than 87, 94 or 96 evidence. As your property is a bungalow I presume the evidence used by both yourself and assessor is of bungalows. If nearby bungalows of same size as yours are same band and assessor believes he's right then that's it, I'm afraid. Although he's actually not supposed to disclose full sales details where there has not been a valid appeal, he could say "bungalow of similar size, 3 beds within x metres radius sold for £x in early 91". He's not obliged to, and FOI certainly does not apply.