If care homes are charging £1k+ per week and carers are paid minimum wage, where is the money going?

tooldle

Keep_pedalling said:

Exodi said:

I'm not convinced on the overheads justification, as you don't see Premier Inn charging £1500 a week, yet they will have loosely similar overheads.

Just posted on the BBC now (see below) - I think that care home probably needs to go on uswitch if overheads are the justification for charging £4,200 a week?

There simple is no comparison, premier Inn does not need to employ several people to look after each resident and does not require someone to check on each guest throughout  the night.

Nor does it provide one-to-one care through the night for any guest who may be disorientated or deluded enough to be hell bent on breaking the door open, so they can get home.
Having engaged with these boards for some years, i do wonder how many posters have experienced 'Care' from the sharp end.

Keep_pedalling

Bradden said:

I asked a friend who manages a care home the same questions recently.. My understanding is that the paying residents subsidise those funded by the government as the money they psy is insufficent.

The problem many homes have is that they cannot fill all their rooms with self funding residents, so have the choice of leaving them empty (which means going bust) or to fill those rooms with LA funded residents who earn then no profit but cut the losses.

Those homes who can fill with SF residents tend to be the best ones, and if ever I need care will be my second option. 1st option will be live in careers and no government is going to fund that.

elsien

Bradden said:

I asked a friend who manages a care home the same questions recently.. My understanding is that the paying residents subsidise those funded by the government as the money they psy is insufficent.

Being slightly picky, it's what the local authority is willing/able to pay, not the government. 

For someone who is not a self-funder, their pension minus the £25 allowance goes towards the care home fees. The local authority pay the rest. Family can be asked to make a third party top up if the fees in a preferred home are higher than the LA will pay but there is no obligation and many people can't afford it.
Local authorities were strapped for cash pre-covid and some are now on the verge of bankruptcy. The system is broke, hence Boris's announcement yesterday.

ETA - health funding is different but full health funding can be as rare as hen’s teeth. 

In reply to the £4200 a week care home fees, she must be moving to the equivalent of the Ritz. I'm in the Midlands rather than London but the care home that charges more because they accept complex needs/challenging behaviour that no-one else wants is £1300 a week, give or take.  I suspect there is more to that story than has been disclosed. 

Exodi

Keep_pedalling said:

There simple is no comparison, premier Inn does not need to employ several people to look after each resident and does not require someone to check on each guest throughout  the night.

I did say 'loosely' and bolded it to prevent this being said, but it happened nonetheless. My comment was mainly in response to comments suggesting overheads as the reason, e.g. sheramber - 'to pay the everyday bills for heating, lighting etc. To redecorate when required to, to renew items that a worn or damaged., insurance etc.' - all of which also apply to a Premier Inn.

While, obviously, specialist care staff is one difference, just like hotels need around the clock receptionist or check in staff, I did not say they had exactly the same overheads.

EDIT:

68ComebackSpecial said:

I strongly suspect that this is a typo and that the cost is £4,200 per month rather than per week. Costs don't even run that high for dementia care in a good care home in Beaconsfield - one of the most expensive towns in the country - it's around £7,500 per month, less than half the figure you've quoted.

It was posted on the front page of the BBC so I'd like to think they've not made a typo... but stranger things have happened I guess.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-58485278 - about half way down (at the moment).

elsien

From carehome.co.uk, updated August 2021:

The average weekly cost of living in a residential care home is £704, while the average weekly cost of a nursing home is £888 across the UK. The monthly average cost of residential care is £2816 and receiving nursing care in a care home costs on average £3552.

elsien

Also to add into the mix that a lot of places seem to be relying on agency staff at present; the requirement for care home staff to be vaccinated may well make this worse in the short term. Agency nurses don’t come cheap. 

Malthusian

The BBC article is inaccurate in other respects - the headline says "The council could sell my sister's home to pay for her care" but the property in question is not her home. It is an empty house. The sister lives in a nursing home.

Why it is appropriate for the sister's needs to be moved somewhere "half the price" as the brother wants, when she can afford to live where she is now, has not been specified. (We are told that she is "not mentally capable" and has been in and out of hospital due to falls.) Nor does the BBC specify who would benefit financially from that decision.

The brother appears to want the house to be kept so "neighbours and friends could visit" but it is not in his sister's interests for her friends to stay in her house for free so they don't have to pay for a hotel / B&B, while she is transferred to somewhere with a lower standard of care to pay for their free hotel.

I suspect the BBC has taken someone's rant at face value without doing any checks and this also explains the per week / per month discrepancy.

The fact that the BBC has unquestionably taken the side of a vulnerable woman's grasping relatives instead of her own interests says it all about this bunfight. It's possible I'm being unfair but I haven't made any assumptions about the brother's motivations above, I've only quoted his own words.

castle96

Re the latest Gov changes... I am interested in the split (a generaliation I know) between Social Care costs and Residential costs. In 3 years time (1 year after a Gen election so the possible new Gov may recind) the contribution to Social Care (only), will commence (supposedly). If someone was being charged £1k p/wk, how much (or % in general), would be SC and how much RC? RC costs would/may be, still a problem. I am sure most people 'think' that RC is the TOTAL cost of living in a care home.

Sea_Shell

elsien said:

Bradden said:

I asked a friend who manages a care home the same questions recently.. My understanding is that the paying residents subsidise those funded by the government as the money they psy is insufficent.

Being slightly picky, it's what the local authority is willing/able to pay, not the government. 

For someone who is not a self-funder, their pension minus the £25 allowance goes towards the care home fees. The local authority pay the rest. Family can be asked to make a third party top up if the fees in a preferred home are higher than the LA will pay but there is no obligation and many people can't afford it.
Local authorities were strapped for cash pre-covid and some are now on the verge of bankruptcy. The system is broke, hence Boris's announcement yesterday.

ETA - health funding is different but full health funding can be as rare as hen’s teeth. 

In reply to the £4200 a week care home fees, she must be moving to the equivalent of the Ritz. I'm in the Midlands rather than London but the care home that charges more because they accept complex needs/challenging behaviour that no-one else wants is £1300 a week, give or take.  I suspect there is more to that story than has been disclosed. 

In your example, would the resident get to keep more of their pension, once the new cap was reached (for personal care) and if so, would the pressure still remain to keep paying from their pension or on family to make top up contributions, to avoid being moved (dumped) elsewhere??

elsien

castle96 said:

Re the latest Gov changes... I am interested in the split (a generaliation I know) between Social Care costs and Residential costs. In 3 years time (1 year after a Gen election so the possible new Gov may recind) the contribution to Social Care (only), will commence (supposedly). If someone was being charged £1k p/wk, how much (or % in general), would be SC and how much RC? RC costs would/may be, still a problem. I am sure most people 'think' that RC is the TOTAL cost of living in a care home.

That has yet to be ascertained as care homes don't break it down like that at present. The Dilnot review suggested between 7 and 10K a year for the "hotel" aspect but that was back in 2011 and things have changed a little since then.