If care homes are charging £1k+ per week and carers are paid minimum wage, where is the money going?

tooldle

castle96 said:

castle96 said:

I am confused as to what "Social care costs" are and/or, how much the % of the total costs (rest being "residential") are. Please

I'm assuming 2/3, 1/3 split based on info i read some years ago, with the greater portion being the care cost. However, if the person was receiving care 24/7  in their own home it would be different and possibly more expensive overall. "

SURELY somewhere it is set down, or peeps on here know from experience?? A lot of articles just talk about "care costs"

No, there is no set value as the living element will vary from place to place, and with the standard of service. The care element again will vary according to local wage constraints, ratios of staff to residents, categories of staff employed, pension provision etc. Definitely not a one size fits all scenario.
If you have care in your own home, the provider will have a fixed hourly rate. When my mum had this it was roughly £15 per hour of care, and that was over eight years ago now.  She is now in residential care and the hourly rate including care and residential costs is just under £5 per hour , approximately £40K per year.

elsien

The £1500 per week that keeps being quoted is not the norm. If you’re going to argue about costs at least base it on the average. And differentiate between nursing and residential. 

elsien

castle96 said:

castle96 said:

I am confused as to what "Social care costs" are and/or, how much the % of the total costs (rest being "residential") are. Please

I'm assuming 2/3, 1/3 split based on info i read some years ago, with the greater portion being the care cost. However, if the person was receiving care 24/7  in their own home it would be different and possibly more expensive overall. "

SURELY somewhere it is set down, or peeps on here know from experience?? A lot of articles just talk about "care costs"

Because until now it’s not been worked out like that so the figures aren’t to hand. 

And it’s about where to draw the line. Giving someone a meal which they can eat themselves - “hotel” costs. Pureeing the food and feeding them carefully to ensure they don’t choke because they have dysphasia and can’t feed themselves - care cost. With a whole spectrum of levels of support in between. 

castle96

Minefield! Would we all agree though that Boris' 'pledge' on SOCIAL CARE COSTS (of £?/maybe/in 3 yrs/if we are still in power) is flipping vague

tooldle

castle96 said:

Minefield! Would we all agree though that Boris' 'pledge' on SOCIAL CARE COSTS (of £?/maybe/in 3 yrs/if we are still in power) is flipping vague

Indeed, and probably of no help whatsoever to people using 'Social Care' now.

Gavin83

Exodi said:

Pollycat said:

Inheritance doesn't exist until someone dies.
It does not belong to any children or grandchildren.
It is not a right.

If my Mum had a choice, I'm sure she would love to leave some money for her children and grandchildren.

But I and my sister would prefer for her to be in a safe, secure environment, well looked after and pay for it rather than rub our hands with glee at the value of our "inheritance" as she died in a home similar to the one described by Pennylane.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, please don't think I'm suggesting that's what she should have done - quite the opposite, I'm also firmly of the opinion that inheritance isn't a god-given right and personally, I don't expect (nor am likely to receive) any form of inheritance in the future.

My point was that people, like your mum, may have made the personal choice to stay in sub-optimal conditions for selfless reasons. I think Malthusian concisely sums this up with her last post about PoA which I also agree with.

The BBC article I linked is probably a red herring; my original question was less about 'should they pay £X,XXX per week to stay in a care-home' and more 'why are they being charged £X,XXX per week in the first place'?

They're charged that much because that's what it costs. You seem to think that care home owners are massively profiteering from the home and living the life of luxury when the reality is many homes are barely making a profit.

It is true that private residents fund council placed residents to a degree. If a home was full of council funded residents they'd be losing money and would ultimately shut down. A care home has to have pretty much every bed full as much as possible otherwise they lose money and shut down. Care homes going under is not at all uncommon and this is extremely bad for the residents. I used to work in this area, it was generally expected if a care home was to close and all the residents had to move elsewhere around 20% would die purely as a result of the move.

The proposals by Boris are quite clever. It makes it sound like he's doing something but the reality is very few people hit the proposed cap at the moment anyway so for most it won't make a difference. The average care home stay is 2 years but the deviation is huge. The record I saw at the council I worked at was 33 years. On the other end of the scale some people due within hours of entering care.

If care homes are forced to accept the council rate for everyone then most will shut down. At that point we'll have a different problem, they'll be no where for the elderly people to go.

Pennylane

For those who are asking why my Mum went to that home and stayed there for 8 months - initially the staff seemed nice and the home was really clean. It was close to my home so I could visit every day.  There was a full time cook and the food looked quite nice.  The owner went out of her way to chat to us and was falling over herself to be nice to Mum.  However, as the weeks went by they tried to discourage me from visiting so often and there were a few niggles which she always sweetly smiled and told me she would sort these out.  

The cook left and meals then became convenience foods which they just shoved in the oven and were really not substantial. So in a day they would have cereal OR toast and a cup of tea.  Lunch would be convenience food and a child sized yoghourt and tea was a thin sandwich and a tiny cake and a cup of tea. 

I repeatedly asked for a meeting with the owner or manager and they just fobbed me off.  Several other people I met in the car park warned me that if you say anything or ask questions they turn against you and also turn against your parent. That turned out to be spot on and Mum told me they either ignored her or the younger staff laughed at her behind her back and I know for sure that the Owner hid from me when she saw my car arriving. 

I used to bring my Mum to my house on Sundays for the day and they didn’t like that either nor did they like me taking her to a dementia group once a week yet they made no provision or entertainment for people living there but they told me they did when Mum started there and it claimed as much in their brochure.

I started looking for other homes over a couple of months and visited 14 in all ….. some were not suitable and the better ones had waiting lists so I could not find anything to move her to straight away.  

Mum unfortunately had a fall and was taken to hospital and while she was in there (3 weeks at one and 6 weeks in another) Myself and another family member went into the home and completely emptied her room, filled the car and left without a single member of staff even realising we were there!  I cancelled the Direct Debit for her fees and emailed them to say Mum had left.  I never heard a word from them from that date and no enquiries as to how Mum was.

The next home Mum went to was superb and the staff all loved her and welcomed me whenever I wanted to visit, we had regular meetings and I never once in 3 years had to complain about anything.  Mum was totally happy there.    This was a council owned home and we were still paying £900 a week but food was plentiful, her room was beautiful and the staff were all well trained and very caring. the other place have permanent adverts in local papers and FB for staff as people do not stay long and they will take on literally anybody with no training at all. There was regular entertainment and the staff used to read poems to her and encourage her to knit and crochet whereas the other place discouraged this as “knitting needles could be a hazard.” 

Sorry this has turned into an essay but the way the first home changed their attitude once they had pushed me into setting up a direct debit (I wanted to pay at the end of each month by cheque) had to be seen to be believed.  Finally it was rated as “Good” when Mum moved in there but changed to “needs Improvement”  just after Mum moved in.  Interestingly I arrived one day to the Owner running out to me to say the CQC inspector was there and would we talk to her. She told me to just mention positive things and any little niggles I had she promised to sort out.  Like a fool I believed her!  Mum told the inspector that she was often hungry and the woman said “you must always ask for more, never go hungry.” But they only cooked enough for one serving each.  That never showed up in the CQC report either!

Pennylane

I meant to add that some private places are charging £1,000 a day (£26,000 a month) per patient!!!  This place where 3 young learning disabled people died certainly did not get the care you would expect for £1,000 a day!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-58466839

elsien

Pennylane said:

I meant to add that some private places are charging £1,000 a day (£26,000 a month) per patient!!!  This place where 3 young learning disabled people died certainly did not get the care you would expect for £1,000 a day!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-58466839

Private hospital, not a care home, which are more likely to be for people who have very high level of need, particularly around behaviour that challenges, and who need a higher than usual staffing level and psychological and nursing input.
There's been an ongoing issue around these places which are very institutional and it can be hard for people outside to get access which leads to a closed culture and a higher level of abuse, the Panorama programme about Whorlton Hall was another one which  evidenced the appalling treatment that can be meted out.
Patients are generally detained under the Mental Health Act so it's not really comparable to the care and nursing homes which most people here are thinking about with regards to their own care needs in the future. 

Malthusian

Thanks for sharing your experience Pennylane, as it adds a lot of useful context and helps explain why so many people end up in rubbish care homes (even when their loved ones are doing their best).

Malthusian's Corollary to Sturgeon's Law: Over a long enough timeframe, every good business reaches the point where there is more money to be made from exploiting a good reputation than maintaining it.