Foam in roof - thoughts?

breaking_free

Thanks everyone for your invaluable advice.

I've told my conveyancer to stop any further work. Also sent the estate agent an email containing URLs of foam horror stories and a request to "Ask the seller how the foam was installed and get evidence, such as photos, of the same". Told the agent that the seller's response will determine my next action e.g. abort purchase or get the foam removed at the seller's expense.

The search for my new home continues.

HopeAndDriftWood

Eek, this is worrying...

We're buying a house with a loft conversion, which has spray insulation in the eaves. The surveyor said the roof condition appears to be okay; and there's a valid guarantee, which our solicitor sent to our lender, and they've signed off on us buying it... 

We are intending to "finish" the loft conversion with dormers anyway, to make it a more usable room, but I wasn't aware the foam would be such an issue. Does it matter what type it is? My knowledge of roof foam is basically non-existant, but I'd naively thought that if the solicitor, bank & surveyor were happy, we'd be okay.

FreeBear

SaucySecrets said: I wasn't aware the foam would be such an issue. Does it matter what type it is? My knowledge of roof foam is basically non-existant, but I'd naively thought that if the solicitor, bank & surveyor were happy, we'd be okay.

There are two types of spray foam - Open cell and closed cell. It is claimed that the open cell is "breathable" and will allow moisture to pass through, but... During the curing/drying process, both types form a tough outer skin which is pretty impervious to air and moisture. Any moisture wicking past (particularly around the roof timbers) will get trapped and promote rot of any wood.

If the vendors have stuffed the space between the rafters with PUR/PIR Celotx/Kingspan sheets (the stuff with foil on both sides), this will be less of a problem. With careful installation, an air gap can be left between the insulation & tiles to allow the space to be properly ventilated.

scottie21

canaldumidi said:

AdrianC said:

.
Your biggest issue is likely to be that the roof foam exists in the first place.

This /\.

Find a property without foam.

Would it not be an option to get a quote for a roof replacement? 

scottie21

FreeBear said:

AdrianC said: Your biggest issue is likely to be that the roof foam exists in the first place.

If it is indeed that spray foam stuff sticking like poo to everything up in the loft, either negotiate a substantial reduction in price (something in the region of £40K) or walk away. It is possible that the mortgage provider will refuse to lend on the property until the stuff has been removed and any damage caused is repaired.

Although.... If that Nationwide Energy Seal guarantee is for a waterproofing agent slapped on the walls & tiles, you'd be best running away now before spending any more money on the legal stuff. Bricks & tiles do not need "waterproofing", and if anything, can trap moisture within causing them to spall in time. Oh, and the final paragraph of that guarantee locks the client in to a 10 year contract with the company and renders it void if anyone else so much as looks at the roof.

What is the basis for 40k price reduction out of interest? Given that a roof replacement is usually in the region of £10k, add extra workload/money for replacement of tiles and removal of foam. Batons should be replaced anyway, and the timber may not be damaged if the foam hasn’t been in place long? If a survey has suggested no evidence of damp in the timbers would this not be reassuring? 

I am asking because we are hoping to proceed on a property with foam
insulation, that we knew needed a new roof before the foam was discovered on survey. We are now hoping the vendor will meet us half way and we have been quoted circa £12k by a reliable roofer who has worked with this stuff before. 

FreeBear

scottie21 said:

FreeBear said:

AdrianC said: Your biggest issue is likely to be that the roof foam exists in the first place.

If it is indeed that spray foam stuff sticking like poo to everything up in the loft, either negotiate a substantial reduction in price (something in the region of £40K) or walk away. It is possible that the mortgage provider will refuse to lend on the property until the stuff has been removed and any damage caused is repaired.

Although.... If that Nationwide Energy Seal guarantee is for a waterproofing agent slapped on the walls & tiles, you'd be best running away now before spending any more money on the legal stuff. Bricks & tiles do not need "waterproofing", and if anything, can trap moisture within causing them to spall in time. Oh, and the final paragraph of that guarantee locks the client in to a 10 year contract with the company and renders it void if anyone else so much as looks at the roof.

What is the basis for 40k price reduction out of interest? Given that a roof replacement is usually in the region of £10k, add extra workload/money for replacement of tiles and removal of foam. Batons should be replaced anyway, and the timber may not be damaged if the foam hasn’t been in place long?

Had a quote recently to strip & replace my roof at £17K - Using that figure, double it should the timbers need replacing, and then add a bit for contingency.

breaking_free

Hi OP here. I pulled out of my purchase this morning.

Here's an explanation of spray foam problems that will scare the bejeezus out of buyers and owners alike. 
https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/insulation-related-damp-problems/renotherm-roof-insulation/item-1.html

scottie21

breaking_free said:

Hi OP here. I pulled out of my purchase this morning.

Here's an explanation of spray foam problems that will scare the bejeezus out of buyers and owners alike. 
https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/insulation-related-damp-problems/renotherm-roof-insulation/item-1.html

Sorry to hear this. 

Slinky

Scary stuff! I feel sorry for vendors who paid good money to wreck their home when they thought they were trying to do the right thing.

lookstraightahead

Thought maybe this thread was about having a house party.