Fluid ISA Bond 1 Limited

masonic

jimjames said:

I had a look at the company and the most recent accounts to 2020 show it did have a surplus which is a good sign compared to many other bond companies that were showing negative asset value. However that was 2020 so a lot mighty have changed in that time but hopefully it's the admin rather than anything else. 

I'm interested in which figures you've gleaned that from. I can see that the parent company declared a small net loss in their income statement, and is loaded up with director and connected party loans far in excess of their current net assets of £12.6k.

In other news, there's been a notification today that a new director was appointed in mid January, shedding some light on the two resignations.

masonic

Sorry to come back and post a second time, but I do think the accounts of Fluid Lending Limited seem very interesting. "Amounts owed to group undertakings" (i.e. bondholder trust companies), fairly static at £2.7m up from £2.5m the previous year. Debtors (including borrowers of the lending business) down significantly to £1.1m from £2.5m the previous year. Where has the other £1.4m gone, because it doesn't seem to have been used to repay bondholders? It's not in the bank (only £12k cash at bank or in hand). Perhaps bad debt that has been deemed irrecoverable and written off? If so that's more than 50% of the loan book.

jimjames

masonic said:

jimjames said:

I had a look at the company and the most recent accounts to 2020 show it did have a surplus which is a good sign compared to many other bond companies that were showing negative asset value. However that was 2020 so a lot mighty have changed in that time but hopefully it's the admin rather than anything else. 

I'm interested in which figures you've gleaned that from. I can see that the parent company declared a small net loss in their income statement, and is loaded up with director and connected party loans far in excess of their current net assets of £12.6k.

In other news, there's been a notification today that a new director was appointed in mid January, shedding some light on the two resignations.

From here https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11429452

Net assets £200k compared to -£59k last time although it is dependent on the value of debtors which might not be a great asset.

masonic

jimjames said:

masonic said:

jimjames said:

I had a look at the company and the most recent accounts to 2020 show it did have a surplus which is a good sign compared to many other bond companies that were showing negative asset value. However that was 2020 so a lot mighty have changed in that time but hopefully it's the admin rather than anything else. 

I'm interested in which figures you've gleaned that from. I can see that the parent company declared a small net loss in their income statement, and is loaded up with director and connected party loans far in excess of their current net assets of £12.6k.

In other news, there's been a notification today that a new director was appointed in mid January, shedding some light on the two resignations.

From here https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11429452

Net assets £200k compared to -£59k last time although it is dependent on the value of debtors which might not be a great asset.

I think that needs to be examined in the context of money and obligations flowing between the group companies. The current net assets and income can be matched to the Fluid Trust plc accounts showing £259,872 going into Fluid ISA Bond 1 via profit and loss, resulting in capital and reserves of £200,653. My interpretation of this is that Fluid ISA Bond 1 has received this £260k from Fluid Lending and it represents repayments from debtors, including any recoveries from bad debt. Note that Fluid ISA Bond 2 doesn't appear to have received any net funds to date (the negative figure presumably represents an inter-company service charge, this may have been reduced by debtor interest payments). Moving on to Fluid Lending, I've already mentioned that owed £2.5m in 2019, and only £1.1m in 2020, so it should have repaid £1.4m to Fluid ISA Bond 1 and 2, yet all that appears to have been received by these companies is the £260k into Fluid ISA Bond 1.

The situation is, as far as I can make it out...

1) Fluid Lending has £12k in cash and is owed £1.1m by borrowers and other creditors, but owes £2.7m to Fluid ISA Bond 1 (amounts owed to group undertakings)

2) Fluid ISA Bond 1 has £200k in cash and is owed £2.7m from Fluid Lending (amounts owed by group undertakings), but owes £1.8m to bondholders (other creditors) and £1.0m to Fluid ISA Bond 2 (amounts owed to group undertakings)

3) Fluid ISA Bond 2 has no cash and is owed £1.0m from Fluid ISA Bond 1, but owes £1.1m to bondholders

While there are minor discrepancies in (2) and (3), there is a significant shortfall in (1) of £1.6m. This appears to have occurred through c.£1.4m in debts being wiped off Fluid Lending's loanbook, with only £260k being transferred to Fluid ISA Bond 1. I make that a worsening of the position by £1.1m compared with the previous year, but happy to be corrected if this interpretation is wrong.

Jackson1Sallyo1

My wife and I invested money in a 3 year Fluid Isa bond which matured in November 2021. I understand the company they invested the money in,  (Northern Provident have gone into voluntary liquidation. I have been contacted by a company called Cprompt.uk ltd saying they have been authorised by the liquidators (FRP) to act on their behalf to recover investors funds for a 5% of money reclaimed fee. They are not asking for bank details at this point. They say the money claimed back will go directly to us and not through them. Has anyone else had this and is it genuine.

Rob_ronson

I Also “invested “ in this product; it seemed to be doing well, I was getting quarterly interest payments up to July last year; I then discovered by accident (an email from August which had diverted itself into my junk folder) that NPI had gone into liquidation and that any queries about invested capital should be directed to the fluid team; I’ve spent the last fortnight trying to get a response from them but the number is not recognised and I’ve lost count of how many emails I’ve sent.
Needless to say I’m now kicking myself 🤬🤬🤬

Rob_ronson

Jackson1Sallyo1 said:

My wife and I invested money in a 3 year Fluid Isa bond which matured in November 2021. I understand the company they invested the money in,  (Northern Provident have gone into voluntary liquidation. I have been contacted by a company called Cprompt.uk ltd saying they have been authorised by the liquidators (FRP) to act on their behalf to recover investors funds for a 5% of money reclaimed fee. They are not asking for bank details at this point. They say the money claimed back will go directly to us and not through them. Has anyone else had this and is it genuine.

I’d say that smacks of a scam… about the only assurance I’ve had from fluid is that NO company, whether northern provident or working on behalf of liquidators, would contact individuals other than to update regarding the situation. 

masonic

Jackson1Sallyo1 said:

...saying they have been authorised by the liquidators (FRP) to act on their behalf to recover investors funds for a 5% of money reclaimed fee...

Forward to FRP, you can find legitimate contact details in the Appointment of a voluntary liquidator here: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08807099/filing-history
Likely to be a scam, as there would be no need for this firm to contact investors directly. FRP would be the ones contacting investors if there was a need for anyone to do so.

Rob_ronson

Masonic is right… I’ve had a letter from frp confirming such, ie that there would be no legitimate direct contact from NPI or any other organisation with regards to recovering capital… unfortunately though, it seems there’s going to be no such contact by the fluid team either 😡😡😡😡😡

jimjames

Jackson1Sallyo1 said:

My wife and I invested money in a 3 year Fluid Isa bond which matured in November 2021. I understand the company they invested the money in,  (Northern Provident have gone into voluntary liquidation. I have been contacted by a company called Cprompt.uk ltd saying they have been authorised by the liquidators (FRP) to act on their behalf to recover investors funds for a 5% of money reclaimed fee. They are not asking for bank details at this point. They say the money claimed back will go directly to us and not through them. Has anyone else had this and is it genuine.

It's definitely a scam if they ask for the money up front. 
There is some confusion about the role of NPI though. They are not a company that Fluid invested money into, they were the manager to the bond and handled administration. Them going bust should have no impact on the finances of Fluid so if they're suggesting that it would seem they're being rather misleading.