Noise from renovation

Unitedwestand_2

Thanks for all your comments, taken on board. I'm just going to crack on with it,don't feel as though I'm in the wrong. I'll try and keep noise to a minimum of course but I'm not going to be creeping round. 
Ps. JP I'll be getting LP

Doozergirl

kdotdotdotdot said:

I guess no one in this thread has ever struggled to get a baby off to sleep?  All they asked was for you to keep the noise down during nap time (which will soon be a goner anyway, as the child's nearly old enough not to need afternoon naps).  But what do you do?  You get the drill out and drill holes.  You get the vacuum cleaner out on an uncarpeted floor and bang it about.  Exactly at the time you know your neighbours are trying to get the baby to sleep.  How many more times over the past 18 months have you disrupted them?

I'm not surprised they yelled at you.  

Learn to be a good neighbour.  If you know someone needs quiet at a certain time, then try to be quiet.  Don't get the black and decker out and start drilling!  And you know what?  If you start being a decent neighbour, they'll be better minded to be kind to you when you need it.  Like, for example, when that baby gets older and decides to throw tennis balls against the wall adjoining yours for hours on end.

I've successfully grown two without ever shouting at my neighbours.  The first one lived in London as a baby - not the quietest place.  

When you have more than one child, they also have to live with the sound of each other.  Promoting absolute silence for sleep isn't a great thing because you cannot control it.  Trying to control other people is a terrible thing for mental health, because it's impossible; that explains the neighbour's anger issues.  

As you've correctly pointed out, children are noisy from the very start. Neighbours of them also have to deal with them crying in the middle of the night etc so the tolerance very goes both ways, like it does in any attached home.   Never mind tennis balls, they come out of the womb noisy! 

Jeepers_Creepers

Unitedwestand_2 said:

Thanks for all your comments, taken on board. I'm just going to crack on with it,don't feel as though I'm in the wrong. I'll try and keep noise to a minimum of course but I'm not going to be creeping round. 
Ps. JP I'll be getting LP

No, you are not in the wrong. And of course you'll take the usual reasonable steps to be considerate.

This has to be your call, but I personally would (having had to deal with an 'entitled' neighbour) write them a note. At the moment, the situation is left in limbo, and folks like your neighbs will be filling in the gaps, almost certainly in a self-justified way.

The guy will quite likely be a bit mortified at him 'losing it', but not enough to try and do the decent thing about it. Instead, he'll be mulling it over and over, until his actions are pretty much fully justified in his mind; the issue was ultimately caused by 'you'.

And, because he'll - deep inside his head - be a bit embarrassed at what he's done, he'll likely be more reluctant to intervene again at an early and defusing stage, but instead let it build until he 'blows' again.

A note should help restore the limbo, so both sides know clearly where they stand - at least from your viewpoint. You are indicating what the expectations to neighbourly behaviour are, and that you are happy to abide by them (as you already have). You have indicated a wish to move forward to a respectful neighbourly future. And you are also reminding him of his completely unacceptable behaviour, and making it clear you won't tolerate any repeat - I think he needs that line in the sand, undisputable, unarguable. He needs to see it in B&W. Because, at the moment, he's almost certainly made it grey in his entitled mind, and that shade is becoming lighter every time he runs through it again. Even the fact that you haven't done anything in 'retaliation' - remonstrated with him, called the cops, brought it up when you were both out the front of your houses, anything - will be 'proof' to his irrational mind that you 'accept' the blame for his actions. In his mind, it was all your fault; you made him lose it. You gave him no choice; it ain't his fault - boo-hoo. 

A note also gets it across without interruption. If you were to try and bring this matter up in conversation, in a calm and reasonable way, expect to be gobsmacked (not literally) and even impressed by the devious runs of his thoughts; you will struggle to keep it on the actual issue involved, his unacceptable behaviour. The only proviso to this - when even seemingly-irrational folk can be 'sensible' - is if there's an impartial witness. But it has to be 'impartial' - not your partner or family friend.

It goes to prove that, even tho' these raging folk really 'believe' they are in the 'right', there is a part of their brain - the ego? - that knows the truth, and knows how to draw things back in order to prevent a complete descent and exposure of their irrationality. Like everything else, it's self-protective.

But, of course, this has to be your judgement, depending on your circumstances.

Abbafan1972

You definitely haven't done anything wrong, just remember that. I can see that you are trying to be considerate and keep the noise to a minimum during those hours, but ultimately you need to get the work done.  It's not practical to tell your workmen to down tools as soon as the clock strikes midday.

I second the note, the worst that could happen is he could come storming round and call you all the names under the sun.  But for me it would be worth the risk. 

We live in a terraced house on the end, so we are only joined to a neighbour the one side. I have been working from home since July 2020 and what I'm doing does require concentration sometimes and no way is it quiet in the daytime!  My neighbour who is joined is mostly quiet and I can hear her vacuuming and I daresay she can hear us vacuuming along the dividing walls (the hall and stairs), but neither of us would dream of saying anything as it's just day to day living noise.  I can hear noise from outside and my neighbour 2 doors away is building an extension at the back and that has been really noisy, but no way would I go and demand that he be quiet.  I know that eventually it will be finished. 

When my kids were babies, I can't remember them ever sleeping at set hours during the day, so demanding a neighbour be quiet would be unreasonable of me. I preferred them to sleep at night, which was when I would be sleeping. 

Sleeping during the day whatever your age is hard (unless you're a vampire lol), as sometimes there's just too much noise going on which you can't do anything about.  Hubby used to work nights and very rarely was able to sleep during the day.  It was the mid 90's and there was a craze of everyone in our street getting their driveways block paved.  As soon as one was finished, someone else would be having it done!   Plus the occasional knock at the door. A lot of times he did go round to his parents to get a few hours kip, as it was quieter and more secluded. 

Good luck. 

Jeepers_Creepers

Abbafan1972 said:

I second the note, the worst that could happen is he could come storming round and call you all the names under the sun.  But for me it would be worth the risk. 
 

And then you would know what you are dealing with, and be ready to act accordingly.

At the moment, neither party knows what's going through the mind of the other, or what they might do next. I suspect Westie is a bit on tenterhooks, because he's already seen that the guy can lose it. The idiot next door will also be wondering how Westie feels about his explosion, and how he might want to respond; will Westie go quiet, or could he even try and get his own back by being less considerate with making noise?

No-one knows. It's Limbo - stressful and unpleasant.

There's even a fair chance that the IND might even think he's 'won', especially if Westie acts like the decent bloke he is. That's the problem with dealing with narcs and 'entitled' folk - they use their lack of empathy to impose their will on those who often give them what they want because normal folk have empathy. Bullies often do get results. They don't care whether it's because the bullied person is just a nice decent person, or because the bullied person is genuinely intimidated. They probably prefer to think it's the latter, so it emboldens them.

Since Westie will do the decent thing, the IND might feel that his aggression was therefore even more justified, and if it worked once, then, well, you know...

How to respond to narcs and their ilk? With calm reason, very simple guidelines, and a line in the sand. If you respond to a narc like a narc - ie if Westie made extra noise to spite them - then it can only escalate, and become a very murky issue to resolve.

Instead, lay down the situation:

1) Westie has no wish to cause a noise nuisance, and never did. 2) Westie does, tho', need to get on with his rightful work. 3) Westie will try and be as considerate as he can, within reason. 4) Westie is more than prepared to be a good neighbour. 5) Westie will not take any more BS. 6) And Westie is making it clear that the IND was full of it.

Bigphil1474

I'm with the neighbour*
My neighbour moved in about 5 years ago. Immediately started reworking their entire house. Went on for about a year as it was being done by her brother 'in between his normal jobs'. Basically, ad-hoc evening and weekend working that so was so intrusive. Had a word early on and at least they agreed to stop at 10pm and not do any noisy work on a Sunday. Peace was restored after a year. Then it started again in lockdown. Her brother didn't have any 'normal jobs' to do so she decided to have her kitchen fully renovated from floor joists upwards including the chimney. After the first day we had some words and they agreed to let us know of any significant noisy work they'd be doing and not work on a Sunday, and stop by 5pm. Working at home all day and having noise all evening would have been too much. Worked out ok.
We had workmen sorting our cellar out for 2 days last month - told the neighbours it would be loud, when it would start/finish, how long it would last etc. and stuck to those times. It was really noisy as they were digging through about 3 feet of concrete and ground rock but unavoidable. 
In my opinion, the person doing the renovation work is the one who needs to be proactive with their neighbours. Neighbours working on their property for 18 months, a bit at a time, not knowing when the noise will be happening, is going to be so annoying for anyone, never mind someone with a new born. Best way to resolve it is to communicate.
*No excuse for violent and aggressive behaviour, but sounds like the end of their tether was reached. 

Jeepers_Creepers

Fair comments, BigPhil, except the OP's situation bears no resemblance to yours at all.

Monsternextdoor

I'm so looking forward to doing up my new house with neighbours - considering I like to work late at night when painting and tiling. 

That if I hear the front door over the dulcet tones of Metallica and Pantera ....

980233

kdotdotdotdot said:

I guess no one in this thread has ever struggled to get a baby off to sleep?  All they asked was for you to keep the noise down during nap time (which will soon be a goner anyway, as the child's nearly old enough not to need afternoon naps).  But what do you do?  You get the drill out and drill holes.  You get the vacuum cleaner out on an uncarpeted floor and bang it about.  Exactly at the time you know your neighbours are trying to get the baby to sleep.  How many more times over the past 18 months have you disrupted them?

I'm not surprised they yelled at you.  

Learn to be a good neighbour.  If you know someone needs quiet at a certain time, then try to be quiet.  Don't get the black and decker out and start drilling!  And you know what?  If you start being a decent neighbour, they'll be better minded to be kind to you when you need it.  Like, for example, when that baby gets older and decides to throw tennis balls against the wall adjoining yours for hours on end.

This has got to be a wind up surely ? Gone fishing?

kdotdotdotdot

980233 said:

kdotdotdotdot said:

I guess no one in this thread has ever struggled to get a baby off to sleep?  All they asked was for you to keep the noise down during nap time (which will soon be a goner anyway, as the child's nearly old enough not to need afternoon naps).  But what do you do?  You get the drill out and drill holes.  You get the vacuum cleaner out on an uncarpeted floor and bang it about.  Exactly at the time you know your neighbours are trying to get the baby to sleep.  How many more times over the past 18 months have you disrupted them?

I'm not surprised they yelled at you.  

Learn to be a good neighbour.  If you know someone needs quiet at a certain time, then try to be quiet.  Don't get the black and decker out and start drilling!  And you know what?  If you start being a decent neighbour, they'll be better minded to be kind to you when you need it.  Like, for example, when that baby gets older and decides to throw tennis balls against the wall adjoining yours for hours on end.

This has got to be a wind up surely ? Gone fishing?

Nope, no wind up.  The OP has been renovating and doing up his house since May 2020 - that's already 16 months' of work and apparently there's more to come. All the neighbours have asked is that he keeps the noise down for two hours in the afternoon so their new-born can nap.  And they asked politely.  While he claims he tried not to, the OP mentions two occasions when he did make a lot of noise and the neighbour seems to have absolutely lost it and came round effing and jeffing at him.  No excuse for that sort of behaviour, sure, but we've only got the OP's word that he's been an absolute saint other than those two occasions.  

My experience is that neighbours don't always know how much noise they're making, how often they're doing it, or how far the sound travels.  Given that it's the OP who believes he's too important to share his phone number with the neighbours, I also wonder why we're so quick to assume it's the neighbours who are self-entitled or being difficult.  They're surely over-tired and as a result, grumpy and short-fused, maybe, but we don't know the whole story, nor how much noise the OP has really been making for over a year.

All I'm saying is that being a good neighbour is worthwhile, especially when it's not in any way difficult to drill a few holes or vacuum at a different time of day.  They aren't asking him to creep around in his own home, just to take a long lunch break.