Pension has finally landed - As an insistent client acting against advice -*DOORS CLOSED 03/09/2021*

Diplodicus

DeadlyD said:

Diplodicus said:

In the main, without a recommendation to transfer, clients currently are unable to transfer.

Do you agree with that, xylophone? 

That appears to be the case and back to my original point unless I can obtain the recommendation and an IFA won’t give me a guarantee of that prior to spending £6k. It’s just wrong. 

Question do I absolutely need an IFA to agree for the transfer as an insistent client into the Stakeholder? 

You would need a declaration that advice had been given and for that you would need to pay the full IFA fee. I think £6,000 has been mentioned. The equivalent of three or four years' Council Tax.

DT2001

DeadlyD said:

Daniel54 said:

Linton got there before me, but there is a triage option ( set out in xylophone's Pruadvisor  links but currently down  for the weekend apparently) to set out your case with an IFA and receive a view if the recommendation would be a definite no or not.

To put your case forward you would in any event need to provide many more details than you have felt able to share here.

But in that instance  you won't need to pay for full advice if the initial guidance is clearly negative.

If you wish  to be an insistent client, then from the inputs on this board there are quite clearly no guarantees how you might achieve a non advised transfer.

Taking what is arguably s safe withdrawal rate of 4%,your transferred pot ( after the PCLS) would indicate an income of £4,500 per annum.Is this what you are planning to live off ?

Thank you I will look through the pru link thanks @xylophone. 

I don’t plan to live of the £4500 pa as it wouldn’t provide enough that’s why I gave private and workplace pensions as well as other investments. I’m not sure what’s going to help providing me a positive case apart from inheritance reasons. Clearly I can’t be honest with an IFA that I want to have freedom of choice to retire early pay off mortgage and change my lifestyle which I’ve worked FT all my life for. 

If you are willing to provide more financial details of your situation maybe some of the very well read forumites can point you in the right direction to present your case in the most favourable light.

Will your other investments provide the income you require with low risk/volatility?

Does your DB pension have a GMP element, does it increase in deferment and when in payment and if so by CPI, RPI with a maximum.

If you were able to get the CETV would the 25% pay off your mortgage or do you need more which will incur tax?

The information you feel able to give the better pointers you’ll get.

Good luck.

DeadlyD

DT2001 said:

If you are willing to provide more financial details of your situation maybe some of the very well read forumites can point you in the right direction to present your case in the most favourable light.

Will your other investments provide the income you require with low risk/volatility?

Does your DB pension have a GMP element, does it increase in deferment and when in payment and if so by CPI, RPI with a maximum.

If you were able to get the CETV would the 25% pay off your mortgage or do you need more which will incur tax?

The information you feel able to give the better pointers you’ll get.

Good luck.

Thank you. I really appreciate this much more helpful than I've had with 2 Financial experts 1 that manages my pensions from SJP. I'm not sure how much personal info is required.. so I'll go for it. 
Female - 55yrs married Husband 43yrs 
Pension;- age 60 
Deferred DB (ICL Fujitsu) final salary increases 5% RPI - estimated at 60yrs  £3,588.96 pa Spouse's Pension 1,794.48 Per Annum Estimated Total Transfer Value£139,679.18. Death Benefit 50% husband 50% children (but goes down a % as he is 10 years younger) 

SIPP - approx £130k managed by SJP
Current Workplace L&G - £80k (employed)
Mortgage £55k 
Want to invest DB transfer into pension fund and drawdown asap. Leave a stressful / European job where i am away a lot to care after parents etc - so lifestyle change asap. 
Husbands pension - managed SIPP £38k and Workplace £65k intends to continue to work until 60yr (born 1978)

Investments are family home (£550k) and savings approx £20k 
 
You are all so helpful, basically both finanical advisors who are in the business for 25yrs plus said none of the above was applicable and they didn't recommend. Clearly I am more educated now about the complexities though but I still want to be able to make m own educated decision about how I mange my retirement. I've worked hard and want to have a more peaceful family life! 

Dale72

Linton said:

The IFA could not say that the transfer would end up badly.  After all you could spend all your pension money on lottery tickets and win the jackpot.  He certainly could show that there is a high risk that a transfer would be a a bad decision compared with keeping the guaranteed DB pension.

No he couldn't, not without knowing what the markets are going to do in the next 20+ years, all he can do is guess based on the past performance.

Pablo7474

What an IFA may say is if you need £55k for a mortgage, why not take 25% of your SIPP and work pension and then use the rest of them to provide an income, whilst leaving your DB untouched. 

I am just suggesting what they may say and trying to be helpful. 

Linton

Dale72 said:

Linton said:

The IFA could not say that the transfer would end up badly.  After all you could spend all your pension money on lottery tickets and win the jackpot.  He certainly could show that there is a high risk that a transfer would be a a bad decision compared with keeping the guaranteed DB pension.

No he couldn't, not without knowing what the markets are going to do in the next 20+ years, all he can do is guess based on the past performance.

If you go with the future is totally unknown argument then the DB pension would win every time since it is guaranteed, barring end of the world scenarios. To justify a transfer out it needs to be shown that it is in your interests to do so which can only be done on the basis of probabilities.  How else could even the obvious case of a transfer-out on the basis of a terminal illness diagnosis be justified?  After all it cannot be known with absolute certainty that you you would die within a small nuber of years.

Dale72

I think it was you who was going with a future is 100% known argument rather than me going with a totally unknown one. The uncertainty of the future should mean it shouldn't play such a significant role, far less than the clients circumstances and wishes. 

xylophone

Pension;- age 60 
Deferred DB (ICL Fujitsu) 

You were a member of the ICL Group Pension Plan? If so, there is a copy of the Pension Guide here 

https://fujitsu.pensiondetails.co.uk/home/icl-plan.html 

 which it could be useful to read through while you are mulling over whether to approach an adviser.

Do you have a statement of deferred benefits at date of leaving service?

Does it show pre 88/post 88 GMP?

See https://www.barnett-waddingham.co.uk/comment-insight/blog/revaluation-for-early-leavers/ and note the "fixed rate" revaluation table.

Have you obtained a state pension forecast?

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

DeadlyD

xylophone said:

Pension;- age 60 
Deferred DB (ICL Fujitsu) 

You were a member of the ICL Group Pension Plan? If so, there is a copy of the Pension Guide here 

 which it could be useful to read through while you are mulling over whether to approach an adviser.

Do you have a statement of deferred benefits at date of leaving service?

Does it show pre 88/post 88 GMP?

"fixed rate" revaluation table.

Have you obtained a state pension forecast?

Thank you xylophone, I do have a statement on the portal, its 0 GMP pre and post 88. The state pension is £179.60 per week. 

DeadlyD

DeadlyD said:

xylophone said:

Pension;- age 60 
Deferred DB (ICL Fujitsu) 

You were a member of the ICL Group Pension Plan? If so, there is a copy of the Pension Guide here 

 which it could be useful to read through while you are mulling over whether to approach an adviser.

Do you have a statement of deferred benefits at date of leaving service?

Does it show pre 88/post 88 GMP?

"fixed rate" revaluation table.

Have you obtained a state pension forecast?

Thank you xylophone, I do have a statement on the portal, its 0 GMP pre and post 88. The state pension is £179.60 per week. 

Thank you for taking time to educate me and help! Reading through the barnett-waddington link which is helpful even though I'm not au fait with the terminology it may be useful to know was at ICL - 1997 - 2002 

Pension at Date of Leaving

Total Pension which includes	£2,128.68
pre 6 April 1988 GMP	£0.00
post April 1988 GMP	£0.00
post 97 pension	£2,128.68