Pension has finally landed - As an insistent client acting against advice -*DOORS CLOSED 03/09/2021*

Diplodicus

I haven't said the current mess is financial advisers' fault. In fact, I have said upthread that the current mess is not financial advisers' fault. 

I'm saying that, in the main, without a recommendation to transfer, clients currently are unable to transfer.
Do you agree or contest that, xylophone?

Linton

Diplodicus said:

I haven't said the current mess is financial advisers' fault. In fact, I have said upthread that the current mess is not financial advisers' fault. 

I'm saying that, in the main, without a recommendation to transfer, clients currently are unable to transfer.
Do you agree or contest that, xylophone?

The same could be said about the actions of all the players in the process.  The providers have greater control over what happens than the IFA.  

Diplodicus

Arguably, but the client's principal contact throughout the process is the financial adviser and, in its current state, it is the recommendation of the adviser that generally determines whether a a client can progress.

Or is it?
I don't know whether xylophone now agrees or still wishes to contest that and offer DeadlyD a practical alternative: forming a ltd company before taking advice or "hoodwinking" Aviva by piling in the proceeds of a DB pension on the back of a £20 account.  

xylophone

I'm saying that, in the main, without a recommendation to transfer, clients currently are unable to transfer.

But that is not what you have been saying!

You have been saying that advisers are  de facto arbiters of the would be transferor's fate and this is simply NOT the case!

They simply do their job within the legal and professional parameters appropriate to the task.

It is not within their remit to consider any difficulty a client might face in transferring out against advice!

The facts are

(a) A client is not compelled to take the advice of the adviser.

(b) Legislation states that a stakeholder must accept a transfer from another registered pension scheme.

(c) An SSAS  may be a possibility (or it may not - I was looking at this form from one of the SSAS administrators https://www.dentonspensions.co.uk/dpml/media/Dentons-Pensions-Literature/SSAS/SSAS-Transfer-in-declaration.pdf?ext=.pdf ).

From the above it follows that there are practical difficulties in the path of the insistent client but these difficulties are not created by the adviser nor by the legislation which requires that advice be taken.

The difficulties/obstacles are created by the PENSION PROVIDERS.

In the case of the providers of stakeholders, a legal challenge to refusal could be an option.

For the rest, as has been stated again and again by me and other posters, as commercial companies, they (at least at present) have the right to set their terms of business

Diplodicus

In the main, without a recommendation to transfer, clients currently are unable to transfer.

Do you agree with that, xylophone? 

Linton

Diplodicus said:

Arguably, but the client's principal contact throughout the process is the financial adviser and, in its current state, it is the recommendation of the adviser that generally determines whether a a client can progress.

Or is it?
I don't know whether xylophone now agrees or still wishes to contest that and offer DeadlyD a practical alternative: forming a ltd company before taking advice or "hoodwinking" Aviva by piling in the proceeds of a DB pension on the back of a £20 account.  

But the IFAs cannot do anything significantly different that would change the situation whilst staying within the regulations.  So identifying them in the way you do does not lead to any "Therefore...".

xylophone

So apart from being terminally ill and very wealthy what are the actual reasons that are acceptable to transfer. 

The information in the FCA sheet goes on to say

Who is best suited to a transfer? 

Most DB scheme members who would benefit from a transfer do not rely only on their DB scheme to meet their income needs and will usually have other sources of retirement income. For example, they may have other pensions and investments. Alternatively, they may be managing income for wealth or tax planning by taking it sooner or later, in a way that does not impact on their ability to meet expenditure needs throughout retirement.

You have indicated that you are in this position so presumably,  if you arrange a meeting with  an adviser, you will be laying emphasis on this point.

However, as in 

https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/pension-transfer/advice-what-expect

You should expect your adviser to use the information you have provided and analyse the options available to you. You cannot order your adviser to say you are suited to a transfer – they must use their professional judgement.

At the end of the process, you should receive a written report that:

• states clearly whether you should stay in your DB scheme or transfer to a new scheme
• gives the reasons why this is the best outcome for you, given your retirement plans and income needs
• helps you understand the risks and benefits of staying in the DB scheme or transferring

Your adviser should also check you understand the advice.

Incidentally, I see that another poster has enquired about your position with regard to state pension.

This will be another piece of information any adviser is likely to request.

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

DeadlyD

I understand the IFA's problem, I understand that an insistent client isn't accepted by an IFA to agree a fund with a provider due to lifetime liability, I want my DB pension as a capable professional of retirement age to proceed. 
What do I do? 
 1. I am sourcing an IFA (with insurance to offer DB transfer)that is more straightforward than the others who just um and ah and don't recommend with no reason but will take my £6k for a "negative report" 
2. Open up a SL and Aviva Stakeholder (as I can't tell which one will agree to a consumer transfer of a DB with a negative report without an IFA sign off - although from the links provided (thank you!) I think its my legal right 
3. Work through the best way in which I can answer questions about why I should transfer successfully  - still have no clue on this apart from I have to be terminally ill. (will check the Pru link but they all seem to be subjective)
Such a concern that I have to invest £6k without knowing if I can 100% successfully transfer. 
For people asking I am 55yrs old, I don't want to re-mortgage my house, I have a stressful FT job, I need to care for my parents, teenagers, still have an income. The DB would provide approx £3.5k pa and £1.8k pa for me and spouse @ 60yrs old as opposed to a CETV of £150k. 
Thanks 

Prism

DeadlyD said:

 The DB would provide approx £3.5k pa and £1.8k pa for me and spouse @ 60yrs old as opposed to a CETV of £150k. 
Thanks 

Are you sure about the yearly income? Is that what the CETV report says or have you calculated it yourself using inflation adjustments between your date of leaving and now?

dunstonh

2. Open up a SL and Aviva Stakeholder (as I can't tell which one will agree to a consumer transfer of a DB with a negative report without an IFA sign off - although from the links provided (thank you!) I think its my legal right 

Neither will facilitate DB transfers.