Pension has finally landed - As an insistent client acting against advice -*DOORS CLOSED 03/09/2021*

Diplodicus

HappyHarry said:

Just to note, you are of course picking statistics to fit your argument. What the FCA said in 2018 was;

As part of our review of the 18 firms’ processes we reviewed the advice they gave on 154 transfers. Our suitability findings were as follows:

• suitable: 74 (48.1%)
• unsuitable: 45 (29.2%)
• unclear: 35 (22.7%)

This compares with results across our previous phases of work in this area which found 49% of advice was suitable, 33% unsuitable and 18% unclear.

Lol, No, I'm not that involved, HappyHarry. 
I'm not here to support a narrative that, in turn, supports my income.
I merely copy and pasted
We are disappointed to have found that less than 50% of the advice we reviewed was suitable.
 from the FCA report:
https://www.fca.org.uk/publications/multi-firm-reviews/key-findings-our-recent-work-pension-transfer-advice
Having seen it before and thinking it a startling statement.

QrizB

arty688 said:

EG new heating system would you do it yourself?

This is a great example, although possibly not for the intended reason.

Fitting a gas boiler is pretty simple, well within the abilities of a competent DIYer. Unfortunately too many DIYers (and professionals) are incompetent, and the consequences of a badly-installed gas boiler can include death and destruction that extends beyond the DIYer in question to include his/her family and neighbours.

So the Government decided that only specially trained and competence-assessed persons, registered with the relevant industry body, would be allow to fit boilers. Before fitting a boiler they will assess the intended location and recommend an appropriate boiler, or if the location is unsuitable will recommend a different one or even decline to fit a boiler at all.

You will be charged several thousand pounds for them to carry out this work, but they will usually give you an indication of whether it's feasible for free before you contract them.

Can everyone see the similarity or do I need to labour this further?

Diplodicus

QrizB said:

arty688 said:

EG new heating system would you do it yourself?

You will be charged several thousand pounds for them to carry out this work, but they will usually give you an indication of whether it's feasible for free before you contract them.

Because if it is not feasible, you won't have to pay them. Unlike for DB pension transfer advice, where you would have to pay them anyway.

HappyHarry

Diplodicus said:

HappyHarry said:

Diplodicus said:

HappyHarry said:

Diplodicus said:

For example, in my case, I thought that I had a strong case to transfer but could see the merit of testing my preference against a PTS. 

It was only on learning about the special tax and inheritance advantages of transferring, that I gained conviction that this was definitely my best course. My PTS advised against transfer but I saw through his self interest and managed to transfer my DB pension after what some glib posters would describe a "faff." 

But if I came as a client to you today, and you recommended not to transfer - as I am sure you would because it is safer and I offer no prospect of needing "ongoing advice" - you would not care if I could then make that transfer. You'd settle for the c £5k fee. That's right, isn't it?

You seem to imagine that good PTSs are only interested in taking a fee, getting ongoing fees, not recommending transfers for "safety" reasons, and generally putting their own greed first.

I need to inform you that this is not generally the case, at least certainly not amongst those PTSs that I know, and do the job very well.

I

 The FCA doesn't share your confidence in the integrity of financial advisers' advice, otherwise they would not have had to act after their findings in 2018:

We are disappointed to have found that less than 50% of the advice we reviewed was suitable.

In other words, the advice clients paid for was worse than a coin toss.

Not sure where the needle has shifted to now, but it makes a mockery of the premise that officials put in charge of the process won't seek to help themselves. 

That's why the process was doomed from the outset. Now, with circumstances granting advisers ultimate power over whether a DB pension transfer goes forward, it is difficult in all conscience advise anyone to embark on the process.

Those that want to transfer regardless of the good advice they receive will struggle.

And how. The way forward looks all but impassable. 
But you don't care about that. You're going to go on taking their money, on the basis that they submit their will to yours. 

It's only "all but impassable" if it isn't in the client's best interest. Otherwise, it is straightforward.

Diplodicus

HappyHarry said:

Diplodicus said:

HappyHarry said:

Diplodicus said:

HappyHarry said:

Diplodicus said:

For example, in my case, I thought that I had a strong case to transfer but could see the merit of testing my preference against a PTS. 

It was only on learning about the special tax and inheritance advantages of transferring, that I gained conviction that this was definitely my best course. My PTS advised against transfer but I saw through his self interest and managed to transfer my DB pension after what some glib posters would describe a "faff." 

But if I came as a client to you today, and you recommended not to transfer - as I am sure you would because it is safer and I offer no prospect of needing "ongoing advice" - you would not care if I could then make that transfer. You'd settle for the c £5k fee. That's right, isn't it?

You seem to imagine that good PTSs are only interested in taking a fee, getting ongoing fees, not recommending transfers for "safety" reasons, and generally putting their own greed first.

I need to inform you that this is not generally the case, at least certainly not amongst those PTSs that I know, and do the job very well.

I

 The FCA doesn't share your confidence in the integrity of financial advisers' advice, otherwise they would not have had to act after their findings in 2018:

We are disappointed to have found that less than 50% of the advice we reviewed was suitable.

In other words, the advice clients paid for was worse than a coin toss.

Not sure where the needle has shifted to now, but it makes a mockery of the premise that officials put in charge of the process won't seek to help themselves. 

That's why the process was doomed from the outset. Now, with circumstances granting advisers ultimate power over whether a DB pension transfer goes forward, it is difficult in all conscience advise anyone to embark on the process.

Those that want to transfer regardless of the good advice they receive will struggle.

And how. The way forward looks all but impassable. 
But you don't care about that. You're going to go on taking their money, on the basis that they submit their will to yours. 

It's only "all but impassable" if it isn't in the client's best interest. Otherwise, it is straightforward.

Back to your conceit that you know better than me what is better for me. 

But legislation disagrees with that premise.  

Diplodicus

You agree that the final determination of the DB pension advice process should belong to the client, not the adviser?

QrizB

Diplodicus said:

QrizB said:

arty688 said:

EG new heating system would you do it yourself?

You will be charged several thousand pounds for them to carry out this work, but they will usually give you an indication of whether it's feasible for free before you contract them.

Because if it is not feasible, you won't have to pay them. Unlike for DB pension transfer advice, where you would have to pay them anyway.

As others have said, you can get abridged advice to indicate whether it's feasible or not. Not free in the case of pensions, agreed, but lower cost.

dunstonh

The FCA doesn't share your confidence in the integrity of financial advisers' advice, otherwise they would not have had to act after their findings in 2018:
We are disappointed to have found that less than 50% of the advice we reviewed was suitable.

It is worth noting that the FCA initially focused on those that were believed to be operating on a factory line basis and more likely to have failures.  It was the worst kept secret that factory line companies have an extremely poor reputation for copy and paste and running cases through at speed, often using unqualified staff and one person signing it off having barely glanced at it.  Those companies are not representative of the vast majority of small localised firms where DB advice over five years can be counted on your fingers.  

It is also worth noting that first run cases that come up as unclear often get reclassified as suitable.  Even some of those unsuitable cases will get reclassified as suitable.   Mass checking of cases is monotonous and the person checking can miss things.  They initially class it as unsuitable or unclear and when it goes back to the adviser with the reasons for the grading, the adviser can clarify mistakes or things missed. 

Jeffmusicals

dunstonh said:

Diplodicus said:

Well you cannot transfer against advice if there are no practicable routes for the layman to make that transfer.

If there are, please outline the steps below..

You can transfer to a SSAS.    

Firstly thanks for the advice (sorry, pointer in case it gets deemed as advice!!). Ok so I can set up a SSAS and as a reasonably intelligent person I’ll look into the steps you’ve suggested. My CETV expires at the beginning of October so I won’t make those timescales but I can again pay the fee to take the advice that I know the outcome of once I have set up the SSAS so hopefully might work. I’ve traveled thorough the boiler emails here and am very confused but hopefully I’ll get my head around it.

 I have to say that the pomposity and arrogance of some of the comments on here are really quite disturbing. We all have a choice and advice is advice..it’s not gospel, it’s not law and it definitely isn’t always right; but I respect it… as others should respect those who disagree because it is a very subjective position. If I’m intelligent enough to set up an SAAS then I’m big enough and ugly enough to take my own decisions and the consequences of them, rather than be scared by a ridiculous arbitrary TVC value.

Why people have to be so judgmental and harsh is beyond me. Be pleasant, be nice, be kind..if you can.
That’s what makes human beings human, not an actuarial chart. (Yes I’m prepared for the harsh comments from people who enjoy showcasing their amazing intellect and experience. But try and be nice if you can..)

JoeCrystal

Jeffmusicals said:

 If I’m intelligent enough to set up an SAAS then I’m big enough and ugly enough to take my own decisions and the consequences of them, rather than be scared by a ridiculous arbitrary TVC value.

If you can let us know how it goes, by the way? The setting up of SSAS pension and the transfer of CETV into it if successful, please?  It would be helpful to get some general idea on how feasible it is and the amount of time from the start to the end.