Baxi Refusing Warranty Claim

lisyloo

Another_Level said:

During the early days of covid19 and before out government issued guidelines for trades people visiting customer homes.
https://www.baxi.co.uk/about-us/news/baxi-coronavirus-customer-update

flexibility is mentioned   

This means that if you had tried to book a service then they should be flexible.
It isn't intended for cases where you didn't bother or were just disorganised. 
The safety of a gas appliance should be quite high on the list when moving properties.

Jeepers_Creepers

Is the fan and/or PCB checked as part of an annual service, in any manner that could have foreseen and prevented this failure? Very very unlikely. The only thing I can think of is if there was an internal water leak which landed on the PCB which might have been spotted.

Is there anything that Homie could have done to cause this issue? Nothing I can think of, as the fan is controlled entirely by the boiler electronics. Possibly an external electrical spike? But even that is very very unlikely.

So, what does that leave? A sub-standard component from the off, that was always going to fail well before its allotted time.

Is this covered by the CRA of 201whatsit? I think so, but I'm not sure.

Homie, do you have LP on your house insurance? Call them up for guidance.

If not, or if you just want to run with this, compose an email - calm and reasonable - outlining what you perceive as the unfairness of their action, especially as it was a minor lapse of a couple of months, at a time that most folk would acknowledge is highly disruptive - a perfect storm of C-19 and house-moving.

Cite the relevant section of the CRA, and ask them nicely to 'reconsider'. Explain what you will be forced to do should they not; use their FPR service to fix it, and then MoneyClaim.org them to recover the cost based on what you understand a breach of the CRA. Add that you'll also use every available form of social media - including one of the UK's top consumer forums - to relate the story. Give them 2 days to respond (you need to get the darned thing fixed...), and then go ahead.

If you want to have it fixed sooner, then just go straight to their FPR, and then write to them asking to reconsider, adding what you will do if they don't.

TELLIT01

theonlywayisup said:

But for future note on warranties; the giver of the warranty is able to state the terms and those terms must be abided by for the warranty to be valid.  If Baxi requires a service each year then that is what they require and without it their warranty isn't valid. 

It would be interesting to see what would happen to anybody using British Gas Homecare for boiler servicing in this situation.  BG say their annual service contract simply means that the boiler will be serviced at some point during the 12 month life of the contract.  That could mean being serviced in January of year 1 and December of year 2.

Does the Baxi warranty state it must be serviced every 12 months or each year?  They are very different requirements.

NSG666

Taken from Baxi warranty T&Cs below. You said the boiler was coming up to 3 years old and had missed it's annual service by a couple of months. If it was done at 12 and 24 months then you are in time to get the 36 month one done. If either the 12 or 24 month services have not been completed then they are well out of date?

4. The boiler must be serviced each year in line with the manufacturer's instructions. The service must be carried out by an engineer registered with Gas Safe. The service can be done up to 60 days before or after the original anniversary of the boiler being installed without invalidating the warranty.

5. If the service is not carried out by Baxi Customer Support, our service division, you must give us proof of service if we ask.

6. If you do not meet conditions 2 to 4, this warranty will be limited to 12 months from the date of installation, as recorded on the Benchmark commissioning checklist. 

homersimpson246

NSG666 said:

Taken from Baxi warranty T&Cs below. You said the boiler was coming up to 3 years old and had missed it's annual service by a couple of months. If it was done at 12 and 24 months then you are in time to get the 36 month one done. If either the 12 or 24 month services have not been completed then they are well out of date?

4. The boiler must be serviced each year in line with the manufacturer's instructions. The service must be carried out by an engineer registered with Gas Safe. The service can be done up to 60 days before or after the original anniversary of the boiler being installed without invalidating the warranty.

5. If the service is not carried out by Baxi Customer Support, our service division, you must give us proof of service if we ask.

6. If you do not meet conditions 2 to 4, this warranty will be limited to 12 months from the date of installation, as recorded on the Benchmark commissioning checklist. 

For some reason although the boiler was installed in August 2018 the next service in 2019 was brough forward to May and so was the one in 2020 so its nearly/just about 3 years old and has been serviced twice and is due a service now in theory but because its about 15 months since the last service they have refused the warranty and cancelled it. 

I understand that it should have been done but its just slipped through and rather than being understanding and helpful they have just refused, even though the fault isn't anything to do with what they service (according to the installation and service instructions for the boiler).  Its the equivalent of the heater breaking in your car and them refusing the warranty because you didn't have the oil changed in the engine, its just a way of getting out of the claim which is pretty low in my book.  Others may disagree as is their right.

Section62

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Possibly an external electrical spike? But even that is very very unlikely.

Given the 18th Edition's approach to the fitting of SPDs, perhaps this is more likely to happen than people imagine.  Either that, or consumers are being subjected to a massive rip-off in the name of electrical safety?

The probability of electrical surges/spikes etc (and don't discount under-voltage problems too) depends on the type of supply, other equipment at the same address, and also equipment at neighbouring properties supplied by the same phase (assuming single-phase). Lots of unknowns there.

If the manufacturer says an electrical transient is the probable cause of a failure it is difficult for a consumer to argue otherwise.

Unless they happen to have voltage recording equipment running 24/7. Maybe a smart meter would know?

Jeepers_Creepers said:

So, what does that leave? A sub-standard component from the off, that was always going to fail well before its allotted time.

What is the MTBF of the fan in the make/model of boiler the OP has?

What percentage of that MTBF represents a reasonable expectation of life, after which the manufacturer could disclaim all liability?

More unknowns.

macman

OP, just 'a few months overdue'? At what point do you think they can justifiably decline a warranty claim then? One month over? 3 months, 6 months?
The terms are quite clear, servicing must be done at yearly intervals or less. What is the problem in complying with that requirement?
The issue here is not the warranty claim denial, but the poor manufacturing quality that results in fan failure after just 3 years.

homersimpson246

macman said:

OP, just 'a few months overdue'? At what point do you think they can justifiably decline a warranty claim then? One month over? 3 months, 6 months?
The terms are quite clear, servicing must be done at yearly intervals or less. What is the problem in complying with that requirement?
The issue here is not the warranty claim denial, but the poor manufacturing quality that results in fan failure after just 3 years.

Personally I think that upto six months for what is just an oversight would be reasonable,  especially if the failure wouldn't have been attributed to the missed service.  If they offered to come out and assess the boiler for a fee to determine whether the lack of servicing was responsible for the failure and if not covered the fault or if so then I would have to pay or pay a contribution that would be a lot more reasonable.  If they required me to pay for service as part of this that again would be reasonable.

What we are talking about here is not the black and white terms of the warranty but customer care where they should be trying to give their customers a good impression of them as a company (while possibly selling you some additional items like a service) rather than just taking the hard line.  I will never buy another boiler from them and will make sure that my family and friends know what their customer service is like so that they are disuaded.

Your right that the main issue is why a fan in a 3 year old boiler has failed, interestingly looking on-line the fan and PCB come as a unit and can't be bought seperately and it seems that the original part number for these in the service manual has been superceded with a new version, it may be a known issue that they have had to correct with a revised part in which case refusing a warranty claim for something that has failed due to a known issue would be dishonest on their part.

Section62

homersimpson246 said:

Your right that the main issue is why a fan in a 3 year old boiler has failed, interestingly looking on-line the fan and PCB come as a unit and can't be bought seperately and it seems that the original part number for these in the service manual has been superceded with a new version, it may be a known issue that they have had to correct with a revised part in which case refusing a warranty claim for something that has failed due to a known issue would be dishonest on their part.

The BiB is certainly a possibility, but an equally valid theory might be that one or more components on the PCB was discontinued by (another) manufacturer, requiring a re-working of the design. In the days of discrete electrical components alternate suppliers and/or components was a possibility. But the increased use of IC's means product manufacturers are at the mercy of 'chip' suppliers, and if a particular IC is not available then it causes problems. (as are currently being experienced in many manufacturing industries)

Another, equally valid, theory might be that the part number has been changed simply because the fan module is now being sourced from a different supplier and using a different part number aids QC and stores management.

To extrapolate a changed part number into "dishonest[y]" is a real stretch.

They have refused the claim based on alleged failure to comply with the terms of the warranty. Even if there is a 'known problem' they have very limited obligation to you as someone who didn't comply with your side of the 'contract' (also as someone who hasn't purchased the boiler from them).

If the 'known problem' had safety implications the situation would be different, but you would expect to find information online about other people having problems with the same part and/or a product recall of some kind. Did you find anything like this?

homersimpson246

To resolve this I have had to take out a 12month service plan with Baxi as we need hotwater now and soon will need heating, this costs £13 per monthand for this they will fix the fault and  i'm also paying them for a service as it needs one which is £64.   If this boiler is going to be an unreliable piece of junk as it seems then this is probably the best option rather than getting a local plumber in.

Interestingly my cover is now the same as the warranty I should have had with one important difference, when I tried to book a service under the warranty they had no engineers available until Wednesday yet with the service plan they are coming tommorrow.

It seems that warranty customers are pushed down the pile, once again really poor customer service.