How can I avoid paying for an unecessary mundic test?

Foxgloves_2

We are selling our Cornish mid-terraced house and have accepted an offer. The house is mainly granite construction from the early 1800's but it has a kitchen extension that we understand was built in the 1970's or 80's. When we bought the house 8 years ago, we were told by the estate agent that the extension was not built during the mundic period, however we have no paperwork to back this up (we did not get a mortgage for the property).

Our buyer's lender is now insisting on a mundic test, and the onus is on us to pay for it. We believe this is unnecessary but have no way to prove it. Can anyone offer any advice on how to avoid this? We have tried looking on the Cornwall Council planning portal, but there is nothing about our extension so presumably it didn't require planning permission at the time. Could we find the information we need on old maps, if they show that there was no extension there prior to 1960?

Ramouth

Tricky one.  Could look at old maps / photographs to prove it was extended after 1965?

Jumblebumble

Foxgloves_2 said:

We are selling our Cornish mid-terraced house and have accepted an offer. The house is mainly granite construction from the early 1800's but it has a kitchen extension that we understand was built in the 1970's or 80's. When we bought the house 8 years ago, we were told by the estate agent that the extension was not built during the mundic period, however we have no paperwork to back this up (we did not get a mortgage for the property).

Our buyer's lender is now insisting on a mundic test, and the onus is on us to pay for it. We believe this is unnecessary but have no way to prove it. Can anyone offer any advice on how to avoid this? We have tried looking on the Cornwall Council planning portal, but there is nothing about our extension so presumably it didn't require planning permission at the time. Could we find the information we need on old maps, if they show that there was no extension there prior to 1960?

Easy

Why would the buyer or their  lender be in the slightest bit  interested in whether you think it necessary or not ?
If you want to sell get it done
If you don't want to sell then don't

elsien

How much is the cost of the test as compared to the agreed sale price? 

grumiofoundation

If the buyer's lender is insisting on the test then I don't see how it can be avoided? (Edit - if you want the sale to occur, obviously you avoid it being done them pulling out).

Only question would seem to be who pays for it, you or the buyer.

I would also say put yourself in the buyers position. Lender says - we want Mundic test. Vendor says to you - oh we don't you need to do that, extension was built outside the time period. Oh no we don't have any evidence for that, just want the estate agent told us. Who you be happy with that response (as either buyer or buyers lender)?

Foxgloves_2

Thanks Ramouth. Next question is, where could I find such maps? I'm thinking maybe Kresen Kernow could help.

Thrugelmir

Foxgloves_2 said:

Our buyer's lender is now insisting on a mundic test, and the onus is on us to pay for it. We believe this is unnecessary but have no way to prove it. 

The mortgage lender will determine what's acceptable to them. Their money is at risk.  Opinion has no value. What's required is hard indisputable fact. 

Section62

Foxgloves_2 said:

Could we find the information we need on old maps, if they show that there was no extension there prior to 1960?

OS maps aren't detailed enough to reliably show small changes such as house extensions. Particularly in the era where mapping was produced by photogrammetry from specially commissioned aerial surveys.

The absence of a feature on an older map isn't 'proof' it wasn't there at the time the map was made - it could simply be the feature was missed (or not considered significant) by the mapmaker.

Likewise, inclusion of a feature on a map isn't proof the current structure was there at the time.

In the absence of documentary evidence (e.g. planning/BC) the only reliable way of dating a building is for an expert to examine it looking for anything which acts as proof of age, or allows construction date to be estimated.


Why do you think the onus is on you to pay for the survey? With the obvious exception of an EPC, vendors in England have very few obligations to provide information for the benefit of a buyer or their lender.  The buyer is entitled to ask, you are entitled to decline. If paying for the test is a red line for you then advise the buyer (via the EA or solicitor) that you won't be paying for one, and take it from there.

saajan_12

If this is coming from the lender, I can't see them changing their mind on your say. They'll want a professional surveyor / someone to either do the test or confirm its so remote from the period and hence unnecessary. 

I assume you're happy for the test to be done, as it can involve extracting some samples etc? Then focus on allowing it but getting the buyer to pay (as with most surveys). How much you push this if they refuse is up to you, and depends on how much the cost actually is.
If you don't even want the test to be done, then the buyer will likely have to find a new lender, with the delays that entails, or will walk away. 

2bFrank

If they are requesting the test then they wont proceed without that test, unless you can provide a undisputable evidence then old maps etc wont really mean diddly squat.

You key thing here is to either pay for the test, get the buyer to pay for the test (prob not going to happen but worth a try), or relist the property and hope the next buyers mortgage provider doesnt ask for the test.

How much are we talking here, a quick google says stage 1 testing is around £415 + vat. Whilst its money better spent, if it resolves any issues then its money worth spending.

Section62

Foxgloves_2 said:

The house is mainly granite construction from the early 1800's but it has a kitchen extension that we understand was built in the 1970's or 80's.

I was just wondering what has triggered the lender's request/demand? Is it just the location?

Did anything come up in the buyer's survey? Do you know what kind of materials were used in constructing the extension walls?